Markus - hope you are OK with me copying this to the list Thanks for your reply. You have obviously already identified the same problem some time ago - I think it can be stated this way -
1. Different software uses the Oracle Spatial data model in different ways - only those which license the Oracle OCI can really share/maintain the data optimally because they access the data the same way. 2. Other software which does not maintain the Oracle Spatial indices will not get optimal performance, although as you say this remains a route for sharing data if you go for an OGC setup. If the speed 'hit' isn't too great then good news - but the SDE schema (for instance) is a proprietary one and ESRI would be fully within their rights to change it as they see fit. Its certainly an business driver for concentrating all your apps on a single vendor if you have a lot of ESRI - and why not. 3. To get round this, if you have lots of different GIS software at your site, one would need to employ an additional process to keep all the indices in line with each other - this is what I imagine your products must do? 4. In other words - exactly the same as sharing non-spatial data among different products with different schemas running on Oracle. Not big news but it does need to be understood. I'm just concerned that people may think that 8/9i as a single repository NECESSARILY means that all the old data-sharing issues are gone. BR Paul Crisp Syntegra Direct: 0191 461 4522 Mobile: 0776 414 3762 Fax: (0191) 461 1959 Innovation Place Metro Riverside Park Delta Bank Road Gateshead Tyne & Wear NE11 9DJ -----Original Message----- From: Markus Lindner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 January 2002 14:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MI-L Oracle 9i Spatial: who else? Paul, of course, if you store the data in ESRI SDE binary format you only can access that with ESRI Systems, but you can store data in Oracle Spatial (in an OGC Conform data model) to share the data with all these different systems. There are a lot of hindernesses inside all the systems, but once you know them (and we do that) you can define datamodels in a way, so that you are able to access the same repository with different GIS - Systems. Unfortunately we are not exhibiting on the cebit (as last year) , last year we demonstrated one GIS-Database Oracle 8i and the access from Intergraph ESRI, MapInfo and MapGuide, and on the fly it should work with the new Bentley as well. BTW you can access Oracle Spatial Data with SDE, there is only a little loss in performance, but a greater Benefit in sharing data. Regards, Markus ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:00 PM Subject: RE: MI-L Oracle 9i Spatial: who else? > I don't want to walk into too much of a hornets nest here but I'm dubious > about the comment... > > "Oracle 8i Spatial is a GIS independendent way of storing Spatial Data and > making it accessible from a various kind of systems (MapInfo, Intergraph, > ESRI,...even SQL native) ." > > This implies an Oracle 8/9i spatial repository can be shared across a > variety of software - which would be wonderful. > > This isn't true in our experience of ESRI - because their SDE software is > middleware which will use a range of RDBMS to store spatial types, if you > are hoping to use other software to maintain the same data its unlikely to > work. VIEW access might be OK - "don't know" in case any lawyers are > reading - but SDE only maintains its own indices. The Oracle Spatial indices > to support MapInfo or anyone else are different. > > Also a very big "don't know at all" about Intergraph for the same reason. > > Theres nothing wrong in this - all the manufacturers have their own > proprietary format and the ESRI products will all talk to SDE on 8/9i - but > you should be cautious in thinking a spatial 'repository' maintained through > SDE will work optimally or at all with any other manufacturers products just > because it happens to be using Oracle Spatial. > > And presumably vice-versa. Its the difference between 'in the database' and > 'using the database'. > > BTW I'd LOVE to be contradicted on this. > > Paul Crisp > Syntegra > > Direct: 0191 461 4522 > Mobile: 0776 414 3762 > Fax: (0191) 461 1959 > > Innovation Place Metro Riverside Park > Delta Bank Road Gateshead Tyne & Wear NE11 9DJ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Markus Lindner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 22 January 2002 13:45 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MapInfo-L > Subject: Re: MI-L Oracle 9i Spatial: who else? > > > I think you cannot measure the two different > philosophies and compare the results. > > Spatialware is an Extender on SQLServer only > for the use with Mapinfo products, Oracle 8i Spatial > is a GIS independendent way of storing Spatial Data and > making it accessible from a various kind of systems (MapInfo, > Intergraph, ESRI,...even SQL native) . > > And by the way there is a lot of tuning possibilities inside > Oracle 8i, read the docs, ask your Oracle Admin, and have a > deep look at your data, i am sure that there is a great potential > tuning it, but there is no cook-book for that, it depends on the > data, the way you look at it, and and and.... > > Regards, > > Markus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:28 PM > Subject: Re: MI-L Oracle 9i Spatial: who else? > > > > > > Hi > > We r also seriously working on Oracle Spatial with MapInfo product > > range, and would like to add some comments to the ongoing discussion. > > I'm having two databases SQL server 7.0 (with Spatialware4.5 trial > version) > > and Oracle8i spatial > > > > Both my databases are populated with a set of 23 layers, populated through > > EasyLoader. > > Now when I load a Workspace with "Live Access" in MI 6.5, the > > SQL-Spatialware loads the workspace in less than 50 sec and it takes > about > > 170 sec for the Oracle spatial database to load the same workspace.. > > > > Any comments on this observation..?? > > Is it something to do about Spatialware being native to MapInfo and the > way > > Oracle stores spatial data..?? > > > > Regards > > Kaul, Deepak > > Software Engineer > > RMSI, NOIDA > > INDIA > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > > put "unsubscribe MapInfo-L" in the message body. > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > put "unsubscribe MapInfo-L" in the message body. > > > ******************************************************************** > > This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person > Thank you > > Check us out at http://www.syntegra.com > > ******************************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > To unsubscribe, send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > put "unsubscribe MapInfo-L" in the message body. > ******************************************************************** This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. 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