Lars, I couldn't agree more with your statements about the distinction between MapServer and some of the additional software components that are necessary to support a web based application like geocoders and data. MapServer is a superior product.
I guess my disagreement stems from the idea that "usually, web mapping solutions are built for customers that already have data to use..." Every single web application I have deployed, either an intranet or extranet solution required that the client purchase a license to a commercial street data, commercial geocoder or some other component that does not have a public domain/open source alternative. Again I think this has to do with the emphasis I place on working with organizations that traditionally have not recognized the benefits of GIS and Location Based Initiatiatives. And for the record...Yes, there are many other advantages to Open Source initiatives besides that of cost! There is nothing better than the opportunity to participate in an active community that is focused on one goal: building superior software. I cite cost simply for the reason that when I'm in the conference room of a prospective client, it all boils down to, "How much is this going to cost?" - Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lars V. Nielsen, GisPro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ian Erickson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "MapInfo User Listing (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Re: MI-L MapServer ? (wrt to Discovery amd MapXtreme) > Hi Ian, > > I believe you're getting things mixed up here. Buying commercial software doesn't simultaneously buy you a lot of commercial high > quality map data (at least not here in Europe). It's two seperate things altogether. You always have to have suitable map data > regardless of what software you use. And usually, web mapping solutions are built for customers that already have the data to use in > it anyway. > > You mention geocoding, but that's not a web mapping issue either, imho. Web mapping is not desktop GIS. The data are usually > prepared before they are published, e.g. by geocoding it. So usually that's been taken care of in advance, probably with a > commercial geocoder, or by shear database gymnastics, maybe in connection with a commercial desktop GIS. > > Nothing in the above speaks against using Mapserver. > > True, there are no immidiate Open Source geocoding solution available, but that's imho more due to the complexity of the task, not > due to inherent restrictions in Open Source nor Mapserver. You can still use MapMarker or whatever geocoder you prefer, and publish > the data with Mapserver. However, geocoding solutions are probably being offered as web services from now on anyway, which makes > this whole discussion rather superfluous. > > You're talking about the cost break down, so let me bring another ball into play: the cost of commercial software itself versus the > development cost of building the solution (with free/Open Source software). Commercial Internet software is almost always very > expensive, leaving amble economical room for developing the solutions for the saved cost - a task that's usually also required with > commercial software btw. It's a common mistake that Open Source only equals cheaper solutions, it could just as easily result in > better solutions (for the same cost). > > And another advantage of no immidiate software costs is that you have free scalability, i.e. you can keep adding an unlimited number > of web mapping servers to cope with increased user demands at only the cost of hardware + setup. Example: what's the pure software > price for say 5 servers with 4 state-of-the-art processors running MapXtreme (or GeoMedia or ...) ? Pretty high I should say. With > Mapserver (on Linux) : 0 $. > > On the technical front: CGI is not a security hazard, it's a *potential* hazard. Properly configured, CGI can be just as safe, or > better, as e.g. ASP with IIS. I'm using MapScript (Mapserver in PHP), and the underlying PHP interpreter _can_ be set up as an > Apache module, which should satisfy our safety concerns wrt. CGI. It's simply not a real problem. > > > Now if we could generate some momentum for an Open Source geocoding, routing, and street data solution, then we might be on to > something.... > > I agree. And I'm sure somethings already on its way as we speak. > > Best regards/Med venlig hilsen > Lars V. Nielsen > GisPro, Denmark > http://www.gispro.dk/ > http://hjem.get2net.dk/lars-online/ > WGS84: 10.26'40"E 55.20'20"N > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Erickson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "MapInfo User Listing (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:27 PM > Subject: Re: MI-L MapServer ? (wrt to Discovery amd MapXtreme) > > > > While the incentive to move to Open Source software solutions is certainly > > there, the availability of data and data-centric solutions are not. For > > example, one could create a MapServer solution that displays a street map, > > geocodes addresses, and runs a simple point-to-point route. Problem is, > > with the exception of TIGER, there is no public domain data source for the > > US that is decent, there exists no Open Source geocoding solution (as far as > > I can tell), and the routing components would require the use of a decent > > public domain street database which I maintain doesn't exist. > > > > When you consider the cost of a web-based mapping solution, the software > > isn't where the true cost lies. Where you're going to spend all of your > > money is licensing a suitable commercial dataset for use in a public > > Internet solution. While MapServer is a fantasic solution, and I've seen > > just how fast it is, unless you have access to a proprietary set of data, > > going public with it is just as expensive as any other solution. The other > > thing that I have noticed is that the current version of MapServer does not > > allow it to be used as a SAPI plug-in with Apache. Every sentence of the > > documentation recommends that you install it as such, but the best you can > > do is the CGI interface. The authors of the documentation warn of the > > security implications of doing this...but it's the only way. Perhaps > > someone with a little more MapServer configuration experience can show me > > the error of my ways. > > > > Now if we could generate some momentum for an Open Source geocoding, > > routing, and street data solution, then we might be on to something.... > > > > As a side note, for those of us who are immensely patient, the Census Bureau > > has commited millions of dollars to their TIGER/MAF modernization project > > that promises to create some beautiful basemaps in the future. Perhaps all > > we need is time. > > > > - Ian Erickson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Thoen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "MapInfo User Listing (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:16 AM > > Subject: Re: MI-L MapServer ? (wrt to Discovery amd MapXtreme) > > > > > > > "Lars V. Nielsen, GisPro" wrote: > > > > > > > > I do recommend that you use the OpenSource products all the way, i.e. > > Apache/PHP/MySQL etc., but again - it's a recommendation, not > > > > a must. I've also built MapScript solution with IIS and MS/SQL ! > > > > > > Do you have any publically-accessable examples up yet? > > > > > > We've got a MapServer guru here who has built one that has some > > > surface analysis tools attached (via CGI scripts.) To see it go > > > to http://www.bouldergis.com and click on "Boulder County > > > Viewshed Analyst." Besides the usual map displays, it can do > > > viewsheds, surface profiling and address geocoding. It doesn't > > > work well with older Windows Netscape (they don't support the > > > Java stuff), but it's fine with IE or Linux browsers. It's just > > > experimental at this point, but you can play around a bit with > > > it. > > > > > > We here think pretty highly of MapServer and Open Source > > > solutions, too. I think it's the one force that Microsoft and all > > > those who ride on their coat tails really should be nervous > > > about, because once you've tried Open Source software and see > > > what it can do these days, there's not a lot of incentive to go > > > back to expensive licensed solutions. > > > > > > -- > > > - Bill Thoen > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > GISnet, 1401 Walnut St., Suite C, Boulder, CO 80302 > > > tel: 303-786-9961, fax: 303-443-4856 > > > http://www.gisnet.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Message number: 7929 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Message number: 7932 > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message number: 7940 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- List hosting provided by Directions Magazine | www.directionsmag.com | To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message number: 7947
