Excellent, thanks for helping me fill in places. I will screen capture placements and pages so we know what will need to be done.
Once we have a branding decided, we'll be time crunched to make all the changes before AOO4 is released. So I would rather prioritize changes as well. Like stuff that will ship, the home page and buttons for fan sites should be focused on first. Followed by supporting site's templates, then third party sites. I'll continue later today refining technical requirements and screen capping where changes need to happen (planning / documentation), so we can size and check off things when completed. Samer On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO > > branding is applied. > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project > > > > I added a section for the social networks where we would need a new > logo as well. > > > Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a > > new/future layout. > > > > The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration > page > > we've been using. > > I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up. > > The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair > requirements. > > They are on the page to review. > > > > I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to > > document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like > > bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places. > > Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This > > is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes. > > > > Everything at *openoffice.org or *.apache.org should be customizable, > though some might require us opening a ticket with the Infrastructure > team. > > I also added the templates and extensions website as their own line > item. Although they are *.openoffice.org addresses, they are distinct > Drupal sites, hosted by SourceForge. So updates would need to be > coordinated with them. > > > I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it > mentioning > > it in the branding in the installer. > > I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to > > provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :) > > > > Samer > > > > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work > >> > effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest. > >> > > >> > >> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select > >> from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing > >> it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within > >> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it, > >> encouraging more participation in the effort. > >> > >> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative > >> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do > >> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the > >> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for > >> bike-shedding. > >> > >> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and > adapt > >> > the best practices and most liked parts. > >> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and > assign > >> > them out. > >> > > >> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually. > >> > > >> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a > >> > promotional video. > >> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP > >> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization. > >> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the > same as > >> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed. > >> > > >> > >> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But > >> I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily > >> put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still > >> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas, > >> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not > >> necessary. > >> > >> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with > the > >> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing > and > >> > waiting. > >> > > >> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers > to > >> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs. > >> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host > >> them > >> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those. > >> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with > >> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria. > >> > > >> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or > even > >> > just to confirm what I make is fine. > >> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that > our > >> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it. > >> > > >> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working > with > >> the > >> > designers and changing this effort to team based? > >> > > >> > >> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is > >> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks! > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> -Rob > >> > >> > Samer > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that > >> has > >> >> been > >> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and > able to > >> >> devote some time to AOO once again. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote: > >> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while > at > >> >> lunch > >> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?" > >> >> > > >> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me > tips > >> and > >> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very > >> highly of > >> >> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but > >> we'll > >> >> > leave it up as what not to do... > >> >> > >> >> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience > >> however. > >> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the > old > >> OOo > >> >> art > >> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me > >> >> again! > >> >> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days. > >> >> > >> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things > in > >> the > >> >> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal > >> for > >> >> the > >> >> RFP thread on Gmane here: > >> >> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations > that > >> >> need > >> >> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, > >> they > >> >> are > >> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well: > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/ > >> >> > >> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have > >> >> impact, be > >> >> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and > >> >> languages. > >> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global > >> brand > >> >> and the brand has to reflect that. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know > and > >> ask > >> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more > >> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into > this. > >> >> > > >> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't > >> have to > >> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us > to > >> hear > >> >> > this. > >> >> > > >> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out > >> detailed > >> >> > now. > >> >> > > >> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible. > >> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with > >> >> feathers > >> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the > >> logo, > >> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, > >> refresh/changes > >> >> > with versions. > >> >> > > >> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you > can > >> make > >> >> > them related though. > >> >> > Tips for icons > >> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules. > >> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should > be > >> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to > the > >> >> user > >> >> > visually in the icon. > >> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in > corner > >> to > >> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity. > >> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize > >> well, > >> >> ie > >> >> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get > >> away > >> >> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known. > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > 3. Font > >> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm > >> stuck > >> >> in > >> >> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users, > >> >> everyday > >> >> > folk, they like sleek. > >> >> > >> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're > communicating > >> >> with > >> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in > the > >> >> end. > >> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what > will > >> push > >> >> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast > majority of > >> >> our > >> >> end users are non-techy > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square > >> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with > >> trying > >> >> to > >> >> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and > >> >> original. > >> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's > #8 > >> >> where > >> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. > They > >> are > >> >> > part of it. > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight > this > >> >> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I > >> will > >> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have > >> something > >> >> > to aim for. > >> >> > > >> >> > Samer > >> >> > >> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to > build > >> a > >> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame. > >> >> > >> >> Cheers > >> >> GL > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: > >> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > First part is dates. > >> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards: > >> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4? > >> >> > > > >> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet > >> because > >> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed > schedule > >> >> later > >> >> > > this month. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to > >> >> > > > integrate). > >> >> > > > >> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind > that we > >> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, > app > >> >> logo, > >> >> > > banner logo etc. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > aligned with 2. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline. > >> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise > the > >> >> > > > >> >> > > schedule > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't > >> miss > >> >> > > > it. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Second part is voting: > >> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting: > >> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American > Idol, > >> the > >> >> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote > >> again > >> >> > > > on > >> >> > > > >> >> > > the > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did > >> not. > >> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all > the > >> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I > wouldn't do > >> >> too > >> >> > > many. But I am flexible > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Third part is criteria: > >> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo. > >> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font > >> >> > > > >> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to > >> demonstrate > >> >> > > continuity. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different > >> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at > this > >> >> > > > point> > >> >> > > in > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our > designs > >> >> > > > are > >> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our > >> >> > > > >> >> > > feedbacks. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until > >> end > >> >> of > >> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. > Integration > >> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can > start > >> >> > > > populating this, such as dates. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping > >> some > >> >> of > >> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a > >> radical > >> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Juergen > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Samer > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" < > [email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote: > >> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So > all > >> >> > > >>> of us> > > >> >> > > > can > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy > use > >> >> > > > >> >> > > alphabets > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last. > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we > >> define > >> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the > vote > >> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good > proposals > >> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a > >> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied > everywhere > >> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...) > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Just my opinion > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Juergen > >> >> > >> >
