On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO > branding is applied. > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project >
I added a section for the social networks where we would need a new logo as well. > Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a > new/future layout. > > The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration page > we've been using. > I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up. > The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair requirements. > They are on the page to review. > > I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to > document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like > bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places. > Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This > is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes. > Everything at *openoffice.org or *.apache.org should be customizable, though some might require us opening a ticket with the Infrastructure team. I also added the templates and extensions website as their own line item. Although they are *.openoffice.org addresses, they are distinct Drupal sites, hosted by SourceForge. So updates would need to be coordinated with them. > I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it mentioning > it in the branding in the installer. > I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to > provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :) > > Samer > > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work >> > effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest. >> > >> >> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select >> from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing >> it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within >> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it, >> encouraging more participation in the effort. >> >> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative >> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do >> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the >> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for >> bike-shedding. >> >> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt >> > the best practices and most liked parts. >> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign >> > them out. >> > >> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually. >> > >> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a >> > promotional video. >> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP >> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization. >> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as >> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed. >> > >> >> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But >> I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily >> put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still >> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas, >> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not >> necessary. >> >> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the >> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and >> > waiting. >> > >> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to >> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs. >> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host >> them >> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those. >> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with >> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria. >> > >> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even >> > just to confirm what I make is fine. >> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our >> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it. >> > >> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with >> the >> > designers and changing this effort to team based? >> > >> >> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is >> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> >> -Rob >> >> > Samer >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that >> has >> >> been >> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to >> >> devote some time to AOO once again. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote: >> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at >> >> lunch >> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?" >> >> > >> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips >> and >> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very >> highly of >> >> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but >> we'll >> >> > leave it up as what not to do... >> >> >> >> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience >> however. >> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old >> OOo >> >> art >> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me >> >> again! >> >> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days. >> >> >> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in >> the >> >> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal >> for >> >> the >> >> RFP thread on Gmane here: >> >> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742 >> >> >> >> >> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that >> >> need >> >> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, >> they >> >> are >> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well: >> >> >> >> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/ >> >> >> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have >> >> impact, be >> >> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and >> >> languages. >> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global >> brand >> >> and the brand has to reflect that. >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and >> ask >> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more >> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this. >> >> > >> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't >> have to >> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to >> hear >> >> > this. >> >> > >> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out >> detailed >> >> > now. >> >> > >> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible. >> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with >> >> feathers >> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the >> logo, >> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, >> refresh/changes >> >> > with versions. >> >> > >> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can >> make >> >> > them related though. >> >> > Tips for icons >> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules. >> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be >> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the >> >> user >> >> > visually in the icon. >> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner >> to >> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity. >> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize >> well, >> >> ie >> >> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get >> away >> >> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known. >> >> >> >> > >> >> > 3. Font >> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm >> stuck >> >> in >> >> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users, >> >> everyday >> >> > folk, they like sleek. >> >> >> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating >> >> with >> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the >> >> end. >> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will >> push >> >> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of >> >> our >> >> end users are non-techy >> >> >> >> > >> >> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square >> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with >> trying >> >> to >> >> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and >> >> original. >> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8 >> >> where >> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They >> are >> >> > part of it. >> >> > >> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this >> >> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I >> will >> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have >> something >> >> > to aim for. >> >> > >> >> > Samer >> >> >> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build >> a >> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> GL >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: >> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > First part is dates. >> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards: >> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4? >> >> > > >> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet >> because >> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule >> >> later >> >> > > this month. >> >> > > >> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to >> >> > > > integrate). >> >> > > >> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we >> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app >> >> logo, >> >> > > banner logo etc. >> >> > > >> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote. >> >> > > >> >> > > aligned with 2. >> >> > > >> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote. >> >> > > >> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all >> >> > > >> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline. >> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the >> >> > > >> >> > > schedule >> >> > > >> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't >> miss >> >> > > > it. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Second part is voting: >> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting: >> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, >> the >> >> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote >> again >> >> > > > on >> >> > > >> >> > > the >> >> > > >> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did >> not. >> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the >> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote. >> >> > > >> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do >> >> too >> >> > > many. But I am flexible >> >> > > >> >> > > > Third part is criteria: >> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo. >> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical. >> >> > > >> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font >> >> > > >> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to >> demonstrate >> >> > > continuity. >> >> > > >> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different >> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages. >> >> > > >> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this >> >> > > > point> >> >> > > in >> >> > > >> >> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs >> >> > > > are >> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our >> >> > > >> >> > > feedbacks. >> >> > > >> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here. >> >> > > >> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until >> end >> >> of >> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration >> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail. >> >> > > >> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start >> >> > > > populating this, such as dates. >> >> > > >> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping >> some >> >> of >> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a >> radical >> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view. >> >> > > >> >> > > Juergen >> >> > > >> >> > > > Samer >> >> > > > >> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote: >> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all >> >> > > >>> of us> > >> >> > > > can >> >> > > > >> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use >> >> > > >> >> > > alphabets >> >> > > >> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last. >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we >> define >> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote >> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals >> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a >> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere >> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...) >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> Just my opinion >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> Juergen >> >> >>
