On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> branding is applied.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>

I added a section for the social networks where we would need a new
logo as well.

> Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a
> new/future layout.
>
> The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration page
> we've been using.
> I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up.
> The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair requirements.
> They are on the page to review.
>
> I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
> document branding there.  I imagine some are not customizable, like
> bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
> Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker".  This
> is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
>

Everything at *openoffice.org or *.apache.org should be customizable,
though some might require us opening a ticket with the Infrastructure
team.

I also added the templates and extensions website as their own line
item.  Although they are *.openoffice.org addresses, they are distinct
Drupal sites, hosted by SourceForge.  So updates would need to be
coordinated with them.

> I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it mentioning
> it in the branding in the installer.
> I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to
> provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :)
>
> Samer
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
>> > effort?  Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
>> >
>>
>> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select
>> from.  Other projects have done this successfully before.  But doing
>> it within the project could work as well.  We could even do it within
>> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it,
>> encouraging more participation in the effort.
>>
>> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative
>> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas?  B) How do
>> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the
>> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for
>> bike-shedding.
>>
>> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
>> > the best practices and most liked parts.
>> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
>> > them out.
>> >
>> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
>> >
>> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
>> > promotional video.
>> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
>> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
>> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
>> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
>> >
>>
>> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work.  But
>> I think that is just a form of idea generation.  You don't necessarily
>> put the winning choice directly into the product.  Refinement is still
>> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas,
>> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not
>> necessary.
>>
>> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
>> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
>> > waiting.
>> >
>> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
>> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
>> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host
>> them
>> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
>> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
>> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
>> >
>> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
>> > just to confirm what I make is fine.
>> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
>> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with
>> the
>> > designers and changing this effort to team based?
>> >
>>
>> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...".  So this is
>> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-)  Thanks!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Samer
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that
>> has
>> >> been
>> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
>> >> devote some time to AOO once again.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
>> >> lunch
>> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>> >> >
>> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips
>> and
>> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very
>> highly of
>> >> > it 10 mins prior.  I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
>> we'll
>> >> > leave it up as what not to do...
>> >>
>> >> I love the IBM design team!  :)  Take it as a learning experience
>> however.
>> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old
>> OOo
>> >> art
>> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
>> >> again!
>> >> :D  So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
>> >>
>> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in
>> the
>> >> original proposal mail.  Take some time to read the original proposal
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> RFP thread on Gmane here:
>> >> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
>> >> need
>> >> to go into a brand.  This site explains the types of considerations,
>> they
>> >> are
>> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
>> >>
>> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand.  That brand has to have
>> >> impact, be
>> >> unique, and tell the world about  AOO across multiple cultures and
>> >> languages.
>> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
>> brand
>> >> and the brand has to reflect that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and
>> ask
>> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have.  The more
>> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points.  We don't
>> have to
>> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to
>> hear
>> >> > this.
>> >> >
>> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
>> detailed
>> >> > now.
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
>> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo.  Both logo's with
>> >> feathers
>> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce.  Suggested not to be part of the
>> logo,
>> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
>> refresh/changes
>> >> > with versions.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can
>> make
>> >> > them related though.
>> >> > Tips for icons
>> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
>> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
>> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
>> >> user
>> >> > visually in the icon.
>> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner
>> to
>> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
>> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
>> well,
>> >> ie
>> >> > C for calc, M for math.  Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
>> away
>> >> > with it).  Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > 3. Font
>> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts.  ie. my font choice looks like I'm
>> stuck
>> >> in
>> >> > the 90s, very techy looking.  Who are we appealing to?  End users,
>> >> everyday
>> >> > folk, they like sleek.
>> >>
>> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
>> >> with
>> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
>> >> end.
>> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will
>> push
>> >> the right buttons with our endusers.  Remember that the vast majority of
>> >> our
>> >> end users are non-techy
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > 4.  Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
>> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container.  Same with
>> trying
>> >> to
>> >> > integrate the colours.  We're trying too hard.  Keep it simple and
>> >> original.
>> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air.  "Ground them" Michael's #8
>> >> where
>> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that.  They
>> are
>> >> > part of it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
>> >> > feedback, soon hopefully.  Just to show the ideas in an example.  I
>> will
>> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
>> something
>> >> > to aim for.
>> >> >
>> >> > Samer
>> >>
>> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build
>> a
>> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> GL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >  On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > First part is dates.
>> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
>> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
>> because
>> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
>> >> later
>> >> > > this month.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
>> >> > > > integrate).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
>> >> logo,
>> >> > > banner logo etc.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > aligned with 2.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
>> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>> >> > >
>> >> > > schedule
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't
>> miss
>> >> > > > it.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Second part is voting:
>> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
>> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting.  Like American Idol,
>> the
>> >> > > > weakest X  number of logo gets eliminated.  You can then vote
>> again
>> >> > > > on
>> >> > >
>> >> > > the
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
>> not.
>> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
>> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
>> >> too
>> >> > > many. But I am flexible
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Third part is criteria:
>> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
>> demonstrate
>> >> > > continuity.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
>> >> > > > point>
>> >> > > in
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > time.  Still a lot of bouncing ideas,  I do feel like our designs
>> >> > > > are
>> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>> >> > >
>> >> > > feedbacks.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows.  I'm optimistic here.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until
>> end
>> >> of
>> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting.  We can start
>> >> > > > populating this, such as dates.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping
>> some
>> >> of
>> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a
>> radical
>> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Juergen
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Samer
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
>> >> > > >>> of us> >
>> >> > > > can
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>> >> > >
>> >> > > alphabets
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we
>> define
>> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
>> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
>> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
>> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
>> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Just my opinion
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Juergen
>> >>
>>

Reply via email to