>
> Yugoslavia is a good test of how degenerate Trotskyism is.
> Bob's line is sectarian because it fails to raise the
> Kosovo question inside the AIUF.
Not really Dave. The question is that the AIUF has nothing to do with Trotskyism or
the tactic of the proletarian United front.
Trotskyists stand for the latter and not the former which has become the flagship of
the Lcmcri.
>That means that if multiethnic
> workers militias and soviets emerge it is no thanks to the Sparts.
Dave is obviously phycotic. This all started with his woe is me stuff and defeat only
today we are heading towards Soviets and Workers militias because Dave thinks that
this call is correct in the context of what he self proclaimed a huge "defeat" not two
letters ago! Amazing how he equates a huge defeat and workers militias and
Soviets...Seems to me that history has proven exactly the opposite when it comes to
Soviets and militias.
The KLA militias we have today seem to be reversing the forms of oppression now that
they got NATO backing them..
> James's line is also sectarian as he says there is no Kosovo
> national question because the ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo are
> not a nation. Well the vast majority of ethnic Albanian workers and
> peasants in Kosovo want to join Albania.
Extremely funny but Jame's is more right then you are. In fact none of the people's in
this area do not constitute a nation. What we have is a land area in the middle of
Europe occupied by various different groupings all fighting to build a nation at the
expense of each other. The only way out in fact was if the Yugoslavian Revolution
under Tito which did overturn property forms and did create a nation is now being
destroyed by nationalist formations backed by imperialisms who want to go back to pre
WW2 and 1914 days! This is the central question which both Dave and Hugh ignore in
order to travel their opportunist approach to the whole question.
By making the national question profound they are in fact a leftist arguement for the
very same intentions that imperialim are planning for this area. Albut they do it
under the utopian believe of mis-interpeting the national question and using Lenin to
reverse the gains that actually did come out of the deformed Yugoslavian state in
order to tail the various national movements from the left..
So in Hugh's sense there
> is a national question here which Serbian workers MUST take up. There
> is a national question which is part of the class question. But
> that does not mean that the Kosovo national question is equal to the
> defence of Yugoslavia as Hugh seems to think it is, or that we
> support the UCK who are NATO's ground troops. It is subordinated,
> just as the defence of Yugoslavia is subordinated to the world
> revolution.
"subordinated"? Well well, looky here. Of course Dave uses this stuff in his own
opportunist way. He and the Lcmcri do not quite want to go all the way with the
Morenoite conception in this case. But they do want to fit the Albanians into their
AIUF schema and thus all the dovetailing.
Realistically Hugh's line is being imposed not by a revolutionary leadership but by
NATO and its support to the KLA which will only go so far that the occupation of the
Balkans by NATO troops (especially American and Russian troops will be a long time.
Dave's problem is diffent. He wants this grand utopian AIUF schema of things and wants
to use the national question to mobilize all against NATO. Looking at history and the
civil war in Russia I find Daves ideas pretty far out even if he was trying to
logically apply Lenin to the national question here.
In fact it does not apply. The theory of inter-penetrating peoples apply.
>Why, because if the Kosovo question is not raised as
> part of the workers struggle Serb and Albanian workers will remain
> trapped behind their chauvinist bourgeois leaderships and there will
> be no possiblity of a defeat of NATO.
Oh yeah! And what will the Serbian,Bosnian,Croatian workers be trapped behind?
If communists do not take up
> this question then by default it is left to the chance that
> nationalist leaders like Demaci will raise the correct democratic
> demand for a multiethnic resistance to NATO.
Oh yes. Leave it to the nationalists who will unconciously raise the correct
democratic demand to NATO. And I notice you say NATO! In fact communists are for the
removal of all United Nations/NATO troops out of the Balkans! You are not and niether
is your nationalist pals who see Russian troops as liberators!
>And he is defenceless
> against the UCK. In both cases, Malecki and James, the leadership of
> the defence of Yugoslavia is defaulted to either Milosovic or Demaci
> and there is no need for a communist leadership. This is the legacy
> of post-war Trotskyism - the abstention and liquidation of
> proletarian leadership in practice.
Well it is you yourself that is praising Demaci and blocking with Miosevich while
being silent about United Nations troops in order to get your AIUF off the ground! The
ICL on the other hand has been quite clear in its defense of Serbia against
imperialist attack while calling for UN/NATO forces out of the Balkans without giving
one bit of support to Milosevich or Demaci who the Lcmcri now sees hope for.
Your "proletarian leadership" like Hughe's is tying the proletariat to various
nationalist outfits now trying to destroy Yugoslavia.
Whether they be the pro Nato KLA types or the pro FN/Russian types. It is you that are
looking for short cuts to constructing a party capable of carrying out a new social
revolution which will finish the job that the Stalinist Tito failed in when they did
create a workers state but deformed from its inception.
Over and above this a correct leadership in the Balkans would have a direct effect on
the possibility of a new social revolution in Russia. But with Daves line he is
defending capitalist counter revolution in Russia with its own imperialist intentions
against American and German imperialism.
And don't think I will let you try and wift away your turn to Stalinist practices on
the new "fifth International list". A list which bans certain people to silence them.
This is the essence of my "anger" over and above your complete liquidation of
communist tactics in favor of only one tactic (the AIUF) which the Lcmcri raises to a
principle everywhere and leads them to there own demise as "Trotskyists"..
Everytime I get a chance I will mention that the Lcmcri bans "Trotskyists" from their
list!
Another question you ignore is the fifth International stuff . What historical basis
has your call for building a fifth International.?
It took 1914 and the German defeat to make Lenin and Trotsky make this call. What's
yours? You don't like Cannon or the Pabloites and hate the ICL? Hardly enough. What is
Hugh's take on the Lcmcri call for a fith International?
Out from under the couch Hugh.
Warm regards
Bob Malecki
For others on the list. and Rob. Don't take it so personal! In fact Lenin and Trotsky
certainly connected personal quibs to the politics of all sorts of political opponents
to make there point. And both Doug and Chris certainly can be insulting all the time.
Chris latest to the list a good example and Doug's little quips about Malecki and
"Cockroach turn up all the time.
Perhaps there table manners are more refined but it is the same shit slinging
connected to political line.
Lately Chris has been talking about all kinds of super communists and dusty old
Leninists. Which are certainly name calling also.
Naturally we should not let the name calling turn the list into a flame war. But clear
demarcation lines on politics. And certainly this has been the case here on thaxis. So
are list mom should not get to worried. We are big boys and girls . And compared to
the blood and gore now being witnessed in the Balkans which has brought about this
sharp defining of the "left" and those who claim to be Marxists is and important
development the name calling and emotional reactions behind it are connected.
I mean it is pretty sickening to me to see the French Pabloites turning into Kautskite
revisionists in support of their *own* bourgeoisie. My 8th grade education comes to
the surface sometimes and is expressed in terms like "Those revisionist fuckers!" just
as I use colorful language to express my opposition to the spokesman for democratic
imperialismon this particular list.
Sorry but that's life. I don't give quarter and certainly don't expect it to be given
to me. But there is a class basis to this stuff and some personal remarks appear to be
more acceptable to certain ears while others awake Rob from his slumber and hectic
school ending marks period.
Over and above this Rob himself declares war on certain schools of thought however in
a very eloquent way. well we all ain't so eloquent and never will be.
Warm regards
Bob Malecki
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