I think I have to agree with Roger. I am in the same boat. I had to learn NPR report writing myself because we have so few resources where I work and no one wants to have me call them up to move something on a label "over two spaces". And then there are MAR changes and someone always wants a report for this or a report for that. But it gets to the point that I just don't have time for all the NPR repot writing and the update testing and the disaster testing and the tasks and the drug dose range fixes and the allergy fixes. Then we got RXM and I have to tell you, I tried to build that dictionary but I could not maintain it and they had to put our nurse who had built almost all of our OE stuff onto the RXM/AOM module because it was too much and I still had to explain a lot of pharmacy stuff to her. But if she hadn't been a nurse it would have been really time consuming and I probably would have undergone spontaneous combustion. The same thing happened with the EDM Quikscrips dictionary which had been trashed and is slowly being resurrected, but that was partly due to having had to build both the RXM drug dictionary and Quikscrips at the same time and not getting very good information from Meditech in the first place. So from my point of view, if I can't get the right information from the source and I have to figure it out myself and I have to teach someone else, I would rather have a clinical background person who knows some of the system because it is easy for me to translate information to the clinical person than to an IT person with very little clinical background.
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"Roger Beverly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To
<[email protected]>
07/25/2007 06:22 AM
cc
Subject
Re:
[MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
I may as well pitch in...
I am a pharmacist who has not had a computer class since 7th grade, and yet I
have been able to figure out how to write a good bit of code in Meditech.
Pharmacy, as a profession, is a pretty good mix of clinical and math/logical.
Was learning to write code easy in the beginning - NO. Is it easy now - no.
I guess I did it out of frustration. We do not have anyone in our IT dept who
can write code, so everything we needed done had to be outsourced and took
too long for me. I can say from experience that it is hard to explain to
someone else what I want done - that is even true with talking to our pharmacy
and nursing support at Meditech. I have thought about taking a programming
class to see if it helps me, but have not gotten around to it.
I guess the right person can do any job - you just need someone with the
motivation to learn. Finding that type person is the challenge, so I would
recommed being open to everyone. That should increase your odds of finding one.
Roger Beverly
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richardson, Tim
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:59 PM
To: Jordan, Shane; Kay Morgan; Lapointe, Carol (R5); Gord Dowling; Cyndy G.
Zoch; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
I've seen some very interesting points in this thread and feel compelled to
comment.
Why would you want to limit your choices to internal/external
clinical/technical? I've seen IT types who were rude and insulting to anyone
who couldn't
write scripts in VBA, and I've worked with nurses who considered anyone in a
hospital setting without a clinical background to be worthless. On the other
hand I've seen nurses who used their intelligence, curiosity, clinical
knowledge, and people management skills to wonderful effect in the IT setting.
The
same goes for IT types; some are willing learners who work great with clinical
folks and are truly interested in improving the systems to facilitate better
patient care. If you exclude any group from consideration your potential talent
pool shrinks. Fact is, hiring great people requires hard work and due
diligence in checking references no mater what skill set a candidate brings to
the interview table.
And to Gord: I love your ideas about how managers can keep IT staff happy, in
fact, I think I had one of those managers a few years back (here, a wistful
tear falls). However, any HR department that refuses to pay based on education
and experience rather than job title deserves what they get in turnover.
Once an employee gets on that IT (or other) pay scale they stay there no matter
how brilliant their achievements in the job. Changing jobs (and employers)
is the only way to get on a better scale. I speak from experience both clinical
and financial and within IS.
I know this doesn't help the original poster, but it's my 2 cents.
Tim Richardson
Senior Consultant
maxIT HealthCare
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jordan, Shane
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:12 PM
To: Kay Morgan; Lapointe, Carol (R5); Gord Dowling; Cyndy G. Zoch;
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
I think this topic is becoming more of a battle between IT and Clinical... So,
on that note.. IT people have to stay up all night to finish the project,
because they have a list that continues to grow and don't get additional
assistance, they work through lunch, because they don't want to lose that time
when
they could have been working. They have to follow confusing directions,
because they have to be able to interpret a general user that uses terminology
only
they (the general user) understand.. J
Shane Jordan
Systems Analyst II
Fairmont General Hospital
Phone: 304-368-4572
Fax: 304-367-7176
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"It's not broken, it does exactly what the code told it to do"
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:06 PM
To: 'Lapointe, Carol (R5)'; 'Gord Dowling'; 'Cyndy G. Zoch';
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
Carol, how much time do you spend in a month in a patient care area? IT people
tend to stay in the IT dept
Learning the language is great and not discounting your wonderful efforts
because there is always 1 in a million and you are probably it. my choice would
be clinical
IT people focus on Rules and equipment. Clinical people usually are used to
dealing with out of the ordinary, working with out dated and obsolete equipment
to meet all kinds of impossible goals (like keeping people alive that should
have been dead years ago) being chewed up and spat out by Dr's, patient's and
families and other depts, are unable to ignore a challenge and are used to
multitasking, have bladders that expand to 3000cc's , eat on the fly and are
generally self sacrificing..used to working all shifts . And they can follow
very confusing directions...which is the essence of Meditech..ha ha
J
By the way carol if you are this 1 in a million that understands what I've just
said give me a call we will have lots to share and I could get you a good
job in the south.J
Kay H. Morgan, RN
Nursing Informatics/Clinical Analyst
256-386-4373
(Embedded image moved to file: pic05407.jpg)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lapointe,
Carol (R5)
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:55 AM
To: Gord Dowling; Cyndy G. Zoch; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
Heh.. don't shut the door on IT . we're smart people too, generally. J
I have an IT background, been here almost 13 years.. and yes, I've
learned lots about health care, the same way health-care people would learn IT.
I can't imagine I'm the only IT person out here that was able to learn
health care???
Maybe I am...hmmmmm...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Carol Lapointe
Senior Systems Analyst -
Régie de la santé du Restigouche/Restigouche Health Authority
Campbellton, NB, Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gord
Dowling
Sent: July 23, 2007 7:34 PM
To: Cyndy G. Zoch; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
Hi Cindy,
Sorry to hear your troubles. I do not do the recruiting here
but do have some thoughts on the subject.
If at all possible recruit from the outside, clinical people, in their
mid to late 30s, who have migrated to IT.
They are smart people, generally. You can teach them enough of Meditech
and how the dictionaries/parameters affect everything in a few months.
IT people tend to come from the finance and manufacturing world. It's a
whole other culture. While many are brilliant, they don't generally understand
what all goes into good patient care and become confused by the
expectations of the new clientele (nurses, doctors, technologists, and
technicians).
They find the language of medicine to be totally foreign. That said, for
operations/networks hire IT. That's their niche.
The reason you should prefer outside over inside is politics, and
man-management. If the new hire has no history with the staff they are going to
deal
with day-to-day it will be easier for that staff to take direction/advice
from the analyst. The downside to this is that the new-hire has to be
brought up to speed on the internal politics of the place while they are
trying to learn the new system. Not a new problem. The IT industry recognizes
that it takes 3 months to acclimatize an IT new-hire when they migrate
from one position to another. We are no different in that respect.
Why mid to late 30s? It takes time to acquire a clinical skill set and an
IT skill set. Ten years in a hospital makes you 28 before you even start
thinking about migrating on to IT.
As per your question about pay.
Once you train someone to be a Meditech Clinical of Financial
Analyst they become targets for recruiters. The better their reputation in
the Meditech world, the heavier the recruiting gets. Poaching by your
peer hospitals becomes business fact regardless of backroom agreements to the
contrary. Your challenge as a manager is to build staff loyalty to the
organization, to the department, and to yourself. Dollars are a factor at the
organization level. If the recruiters can offer a betterment of
life-style, you will have a problem. Note that life-style is not wages. Wages
help
drive lifestyle changes. If the lifestyle of the IT analyst is perceived
by the analyst to be significantly inferior to their peers on the clinical
side of the house, you as the manager need to find a way to overcome that
perception. If you've hired an RN to be your nursing analyst and the nurses
are paid better than she is, the difference had better be lifestyle. (No
shift-work, reduced exposure to occupational hazards, cleaner working
environment, air-conditioning, a perceived support of the manager they
work for. You get the idea.) On the reverse side of that equation, if you
aren't able to provide a happy workplace, you better open the cash
drawer. Even that won't be enough since the recruiters currently promise
nirvana in
addition to the dollars.
Gord
Gordon Dowling
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Applications Analyst
Huron Perth Healthcare Alliance
Stratford, ON N5A 2Y6
(519)272-8210 ext2268
From: Cyndy G. Zoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [MEDITECH-L] how do you recruit analysts?
Hello,
For the 4th time in less than a year, we are having to fill the position
of Clinical Analyst. In the past, we have brought in people from the outside
that have had varying degrees of experience with Meditech. Two of the
three have left the organization. The third took another position within the
organization.
We are now re-evaluating our recruitment strategy. I'm wondering how you
handle recruitment for such a position and what success you have had with
specific strategies. Specifically, I'd like to know:
1. Do you recruit from the outside or do you try to find someone
in-house to take the position?
2. If you select someone from in-house, do you find it's best if
they have clinical knowledge and then teach them Meditech or do you try to find
people that are IT savvy and teach them the clinical pieces?
3. If you start with a clinical person, how do you convince them to
switch over to IT? Right now, our clinical employees make much more than our
clinical analyst position pays. Have you had to adjust your pay scales so
that analyst salaries are in line with clinical salaries?
4. Any other advice or suggestions you have
Thanks in advance for your help!
Cyndy Zoch
Information/Public Relations Division Director
Trinity Medical Center
700 Medical Parkway
Brenham, TX 77833
(979)830-7438
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