On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Carsten Munk <[email protected]> wrote:
[...] >>>> * "basic" software components on handhelds devices (gui telephony, >>>> connectivity, audio routing, 3d etc.) will be part of meego and >>>> opened? >>> > Telephony - look around, there's pulseaudio-meego, celluar speech path > stuff for N900, etc. > Connectivity (UI, manager): Connman and Handset UX reference applets published > Audio routing - Pulseaudio, for N900, the needed policy frameworks are > getting published to my knowledge [...] > Go take a look at our meeting logs for N900 hardware adaptation, the > situation is really improving regarding those things. This is very nice, going to clone repositories in the next days. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Thiago Macieira <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wednesday 7. July 2010 14.22.56 Nicola Mfb wrote: >> Just for example and fun, there is an alpha totally free linux >> distribution (coded in the spare time by very few guys where I >> contribute) that runs on the OpenMoko freerunner since september 2009 >> and uses Qt (over X11) and above all ofono (and now qt-mobility versit >> too, to import contacts) while we cannot do it just on the n900 (last >> time I checked) due to closed csd, pulse audio routing, etc.! is so >> frustrating and incredible on a device from a vendor that develops >> ofono itself in this new open meego age!!! > > It's not incredible. > > It just means ofono is a good piece of software. > > Kudos to Marcel and other contributors. Totally agree ofono rocks! some people use it daily with the freerunner! the "incredible" part was about isimodem support, as Nokia known well its modems and funds ofono I just guess that the isimodem support comes later only by design and this seems to be a bit against the openness and seems to match with Carsten toughts. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Dirk Hohndel <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 06:22:56 -0600, Nicola Mfb <[email protected]> wrote: [...] >> I'm not sure that will happen if I will use a community supported >> meego build on unsupported hardware, but that will happen for sure on >> debian, gentoo, openembedded etc. >> That's the reason I'm asking what do you mean for multi platform >> revolution open new gnu/linux os, and what is your place in the >> distribution scene. > > I find it very weird that we are somehow expected to promise and fund > full support of competitors' platforms - when did that become the norm > for being open? I do not mean here that you have to support competitors hardware, I just want to know what will happen to a *bug* that affects a foreign board on Meego OS! For example, gcc 4.4.* have some serious bug when generating thumb code on armv4t that on some rare code snippets segfaults (the fun thingh is that one of these rare cases is the qt sqlite driver). This bug affected SHR OpenEmbedded derived distro but not the Angstrom one, becouse it uses a different gcc version and classical intruction set, add that on SHR the main used toolkit is efl, and that OE targets a lot of archs with different toolchains and you'll have developers and users aware of that bug. Well, when I contacted an SHR maintainer/OE developer he was gentle and immediately started to dig on that bug speaking with upstream gcc arm developers and so on. Always on Qt it happened that building it with -Os instead of -O2 broken the xml module. Again OE developers assigned the bug and fixed the build process for free. I just want to know if a similiar case on meego will be marked as WONTFIX or will be marked as "UPSTREAM/PENDING" or (weird) you will be proactive and forward it upstream. [...] > There are the usual > caveats about specific hardware that may not have open source drivers > (PVR graphics and some modems come to mind), but the rest of the > software stack /should/ run on any hardware. Other distros adopt opensource drivers during installation and invite the user to download closed drivers after the installation. Using the less common denominator on api will make applications running full 3d on every board. (I may be wrong here, repeat I'm not skilled about gfx). >> That's the reason I think a true open development and governance is >> not fully possible, and a lot of internal resources will be opened >> only *after* the release of the first meego device (I'd like to read a >> big "you are wrong here" ;) ) > > No, you are not wrong at all. This is the "big reveal" discussion all > over again. We are trying very hard to make as many components openly > available as possible, but there will continue to be product related > components that are not. > > But that has little to do with open development and governance in the > long run. These things will be related to product specific user > experience and potential value add features. MeeGo itself is open today > (and the number of small pieces missing are more an issue of "it's not > ready, yet" than of "we are holding things back"). Now an NDA candidate question, do not blame me as it's more for fun and less serious but will let me undesrtand a lot ;) Is Nokia going to put efforts on the meego opensource phone apps and at the same time coding an alternative closed stack for the next meego devices to give an improved user experience? or the closed parts will be specific and not overlapping with meego (for example vendors funding/collaboration to have flash/skype support, ovi maps, commercial speech recognition software and so on?). > In reality we are giving a HUGE gift to competitors here. But we are > being attacked for that huge gift not being 100% complete. It feels like > an alternative reality at times. Intel has put hundred of man years of > development into this project by now - and all of that is available in > open source. > > Example: you can build a netbook image today. For any hardware that > you'd like (some manual porting / driver work / optimizations may be > required). I'm not attacking, and sincerely appreciate Intel and Nokia for that. As a FLOSS fun I exulted when meego was announced, only need to understand some logic. Personally think that such discussion is more important for community peoples like me just waiting on the other river side. I'm sure there are a *lot* of people around that would participate in meego, just have to know that the horse is good! On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Jeremiah Foster <[email protected]> wrote: > This is why MeeGo should not exist and Intel should have contributed to > Debian from the beginning, before Moblin. In the words of Dan Frye at IBM > "Join someone else's project, don't start your own." > > Debian already builds on MIPS, ARM, IA, PPC, and many more platforms besides. > Many companies donate machines to the Debian build system and Intel could > have joined there focusing on their resources on their platform inside > Debian. You still could have built on the OBS and kept your secret sauce > secret, you just would have had cross architecture support (along with > Debian's quality assurance and security services) out of the box. > > This doesn't mean MeeGo isn't "open", it is, its just that it is not as open > / agnostic as other distros and the community sometimes finds that a hurdle, > like when they want to port MeeGo. Agree it's a waste of resources (while waiting for further elaboration). [...] >>> That's the reason I think a true open development and governance is >>> not fully possible > > You are wrong. Evidence: http://debian.org I mean not fully possible in some profit cases :) On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Ville M. Vainio <[email protected]> wrote: > Ovi maps navigation is not currently free, you just pay for it in the > price of Nokia phone. So on old phones where it was not preinstalled and buyed before its release we already payed for it? weird! :)))) Anyway I understand what you mean, the question is would be technically possible? or it (and other closed apps) will run only on specific gpu/libraries? On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Carsten Munk <[email protected]> wrote: > Backing up a bit, because there seems to be a lot of emotion and > borderline flamewars in this thread, which was not the intention. Sorry It was not my intention too! Apologies where my words seemed hurting and for the long mail. Best Regards Niko _______________________________________________ MeeGo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
