My old man reckons this is because pushrods offer greater valve control in extreme high rpm applications ? Anyone ?
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2001 1:14:pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? Indy cars use pushrods I guess they have to be pretty clever to work around that little problem > > From: "Daniel Kroehn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > Date: 15/11/2001 11:57:19 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Did you guys know that to reduce the moment of inertia on indy cars, the > flywheel/clutch arrangement is only about 5 inches in > diameter.......................... > damn amazing if you ask me! > > Daniel Kroehn > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > www.Datrats.com.au > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:36 AM > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > Errol, > > > > I am guessing that the only reason to chase smoother engine running is to > remove the high frequency vibrations. > > This means that you can rev higher for longer before connecting > rod/piston/big-end bolt fatigue failures occur. > > And if your engine can rev 500 rpm more than the opposition, you can get > 500 revs worth of power by changing cam profiles etc... > > If you are rev limited, then I suppose the only advantage is increased > reliability > > > > If you want to reduce rotational inertia you are better off lightening the > flywheel. > > > > I wish that my engine was as well built as a race engine, an 8,000rpm > pick-a-part L20 mmm... > > > > Nick > > > > > > From: "E Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > Date: 14/11/2001 21:12:38 > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Yep Daniel, > > > The Mitsi Astrons use counterbalance shafts. They have counterweights > that > > > must be timed to knock out some of those secondary forces???? > > > If people are looking to stretch the grey matter in engine designs, how > > > about looking at the balance factors in engines. The balance factor is > the > > > ratio of the conrod and piston assembly masses compared to the crank > > > counterweight mass/es. A balance factor of unity would in theory have > > > minimal secondary force losses except at 90 degrees and 270 degrees > crank > > > rotation rotation from TDC where the rod design causes some losses. I > have > > > seen race Datto engines running balance factors as low as 30 percent to > > > reduce rotational inertia. This is a testament to the strength of their > > > basic design. People overseas are doing some interesting things with > balance > > > as most of the secondary forces are energy that is lost and wasted. > > > Any though or LOL's???? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Feral Errol > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.datrats.com.au/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Kroehn > > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:43 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > Sorry trev, your right on that one! Static balancing is only used when > the > > > distribution of mass is known or can be measured without dynamically > mving > > > the system. Its hard to put what is going on in a cylinder into words!! > > > Little animations make things so much clearer! From what they tried to > > > teach us, a six usually has its journals spaced 120 degrees apart to > make it > > > balance the primary forces of piston motion. The secondary force as I > said > > > acts perpendicular to the direction of travel of the piston which can > cause > > > a "rocking" moment inside the engine. That's why sometimes masses which > > > counter-rotate to the direction of crankshaft movement are used, to > correct > > > this. Someone told me that the 2.6l astron engines have such an > > > arrangement, can anyone confirm this. > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:00 AM > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > > > My understanding of engine balancing is that only the rods and pistons > are > > > > statically balanced. The reciprocating parts are dynamically balanced. > > > > > > > > I found this link about L6 harmonics. > > > > http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/harmonics.htm > > > > > > > > I know from people in my club that a good quality aftermarket crank > front > > > > pulley is a must for L6 race engines as the harmonics are great enough > to > > > > destroy the std front pulley or even snap crankshafts. > > > > > > > > The last time I saw a pic of an L6 crank it was not mearly an extended > L4 > > > > crank with journals 180deg apart. Although I can't remeber the exact > > > > configuration at the moment. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Trev > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Daniel Kroehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 9:51 > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > It hard to get your mind around this shit, I just had a three hour > exam on > > > > balancing and the like at uni yesterday. Its not static balancing > like > > > when > > > > you get the pistons, rods, crank, flywheel combo balanced, its all > about > > > the > > > > dynamic balancing where froces from the piston firing create forces > and > > > > moments which lead to imbalances inside the engine. Can someone tell > me > > > why > > > > the secondary forces in a 6 completly cancel out as I'm not 100% clear > on > > > > why, I guess I'm picturing it as a four only with two more > cylinders(hence > > > > primary force cancelation). > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:20 AM > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if your engine is built by Swiss watchmakers with no expense > > > spared, > > > > you cannot escape the unbalance caused by the engine configuration. > > > > > But of course if the engine has been manufactured to sloppy > tolerances > > > > then it will be much worse than an engine built by our Swiss mates. > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "mark krawczuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > Date: 13/11/2001 21:39:44 > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > hi, so what if their un balanced, anybody doing up a high > > > performance > > > > > > engine always gets the engine full > ballanced........................ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:30 PM > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful... :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 13:15 > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The theory behind engine configuration is about balance and > > > packaging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A 'V' engine (except v12) is fundamentally unbalanced. i.e they > > > shake > > > > and > > > > > > > vibrate because all the rotating and reciprocating components > are > > > not > > > > > > fully > > > > > > > balanced. > > > > > > > V engines are compact, this is their advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An in-line four cylinder also unbalanced - but you can add two > > > balance > > > > > > > shafts to compensate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > straight 6 engines are fully balanced for most harmonics, that > is > > > why > > > > BMW > > > > > > > still use them when a v-6 would be lighter, cheaper, and more > > > compact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Flat 'boxer' engines are fundamentally balanced and use a very > > > short, > > > > and > > > > > > > therefore stiff, crankshaft. > > > > > > > This is why Subaru and alfa-sud engines are so smooth and > responsive > > > > > > > compared with inline fours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Straight 8's are fully balanced but the crankshaft is long and > not > > > > > > > torsionally stiff and you'd need a long engine bay to fit it all > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS just because some engines are smoother than others it doesn't > > > mean > > > > that > > > > > > > they can't go just hard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so can you explain why? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drag cars are v-8's because noone makes straight 8's... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your theory is true why aren't all motors Vees? > > > > > > > > > What about the boxers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: James Marmont [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 12:08 > > > > > > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no way!!!!!! Thats why all top fuel drags are "V"s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 12:42 PM > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's just for space reasons I thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: James Marmont [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 11:20 > > > > > > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the "v" says it all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 11:32 AM > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Subject: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know whether it is the number of cylinders or > the > > > > capacity > > > > > > > of an > > > > > > > > > engine that determines it's torque? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is would a 2l V6 have more torque that a 2l 4 cyl?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Iggy (dreaming again) Sandejas > > > > > > > > > Sydney NSW > > > > > > > > > Datsun 1600 FJ20t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachment to it is intended only to be read or used by the named addressee. 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