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Raj -----Original Message----- From: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) (GE Energy Services) <[email protected]> To: Ray Ayala <[email protected]>; miatapower <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 12:06 am Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed OK, so I found out the wire colours I needed and testing the inj supply at the loom connector. I got a nice bright light with key ON when bulb was connected from the +12V side of injector wiring to ground. The bulb stayed bright during cranking and only dropped slightly in intensity. I did the same test using a multimeter and the voltage dropped from 12.6 to 9.9 during cranking. Is that significant? I had the crossover tube off the car to get access to the loom connector and with key ON, I could hear a high pitch hum coming from the IAC on throttle body, is that significant? I also tried bypassing the main EGI relay with a big paperclip and that made no difference. I pulled the carpet up to see the footplate where the ECU is located and it still has the snap-off dome nut heads so no-one has ever been in tampering with anything in there. I’m still curious as to what the various relays are under the dashboard. I found this picture, It’s for a right hand drive car like mine. http://www.555subaru.co.uk/Dsc01949-1.jpg It shows the fuel pump relay on the far left, the immobilzer unit above and to the right of that, then the door lock control module further right (opposite side of the brake pedal brackets to the fuel pump relay). But then further to the right are about 5 other relays which I have no idea about. I do know that at least one of them is operating and then going off a second or two after cranking stops. Can anyone shed any light on these or point me in the direction of a set of 2001 wiring diagrams? How likely is it that the ECU is bad, is it a common fault? And if that is the problem, can a used ECU from another car be swapped in? I know someone breaking a 2004 that might be a good donor for parts. Thanks, Rich From: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) Sent: 11 March 2011 13:39 To: 'Ray Ayala'; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed I can’t get access to the injector connectors, looks like would need to remove the inlet manifold to get to them. However, I can get to the loom connector at the front near the TB. Can someone give me the wire colour details for the injector wires at this connector so that I can make this test? Thanks, Rich From: Ray Ayala [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 March 2011 05:21 To: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services); [email protected] Subject: Re: Non-starting 2001 help needed Pull off one of the injector connectors and measure the voltage on the two contacts, one at a time, relative to engine block ground. One of the contacts should have 12v on it when the key switch is on. If neither one does then the most likely culprit is blown contacts in the main ign relay, but could possibly also be wiring to the relay (think fusible link wiring) or the fuse. If one side of the connector does have +12v power, connect a 12v light bulb (a big incandescent bulb such as is used for older non-LED brake lights) between ground and that 12v contact and watch to see if the voltage on the +12v contact stays at 12v (with the bulb lit brightly) or drops substantially lower. If it drops then there is a wiring or relay problem with that +12v source. If it doesn't drop then the ECU is not driving the injectors when you crank the engine and you're back where you started. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed I’ve just checked the following: Cams turn when cranking – they do All fuses inside car – all good All fuses under hood – all good Main EGI relay – Seems ok, I can feel it clicking as I turn key to on Main engine earth strap intact and good low resistance reading between engine and chassis With key on checked power to Cam sensor and coils – all good Checked earth to cam sensor and coils – all good Going to borrow a spare Cam sensor and fault code reader tonight and see if that shows anything. Rich From: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) Sent: 10 March 2011 16:23 To: 'Bill Cardell'; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed I’ll do another check for broken wires and good earths etc. I was working on the car whilst the battery was charging up. It had an aftermarket remote central locking kit fitted that was not working (power locking via key was still working). I traced the fault to a bad ground under the dash. The only connection other that power and earth was a connection to the purple wire input to the OEM power door lock module. I have since completely removed the aftermarket kit just in case but it has made no difference. I also removed an aftermarket header and exhaust and replaced it with the standard and had to disconnect the air box etc. to get access. I’ve gone over these connections 2 or 3 times to see if they are all good. I’ll check the cams are turning tonight. Thanks, Rich From: Bill Cardell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 March 2011 15:30 To: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services); Ken Bogart; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed broken wires, loose connectors, non rotating cams? And recent "improvements"? Always look where you last worked. From: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thu 3/10/2011 8:09 AM To: Bill Cardell; Ken Bogart; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed Apart from cam sensor, crank sensor and immobilizer are there any other components feeding info to the ECU that might prevent it from firing the injectors? The first two look relatively easy to check, I’ve no idea how I would troubleshoot an immobilizer issue? Thanks, Rich From: Bill Cardell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 March 2011 14:50 To: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services); Ken Bogart; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed You're not necessarily cutting *power* to the injectors-they are turned on/off by switched ground from the ecu. From: [email protected] on behalf of Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) Sent: Thu 3/10/2011 4:55 AM To: Ken Bogart; [email protected] Subject: RE: Non-starting 2001 help needed Battery charged up to 12.6V and cranked well so think that is OK. I will check for cam belt today. I’m just wondering what could cut power to the fuel injectors but still allow the fuel pump to run? Thanks, Rich From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Bogart Sent: 10 March 2011 11:43 To: Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Non-starting 2001 help needed Could be weak battery... but sounds like a classic broken timing belt. Can you see the cam turning through the oil fill hole? Probably not, but simple to check for. Ken Bogart ----------------------------------------------------- 96 Montego Blue FFS Coldside (His) 97 Black & Tan (Hers) 90 Crystal White (sons) ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.miatacare.com http://www.cincimiata.com http://www.bcchallenger.org MiataMail.com list owner On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Bell, Richard (GE Energy Services) <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Folks, I wonder if anyone can shed some light on my issue as I'm getting nowhere at the moment. Car is a late 2001 and was running fine before sitting for a week. Battery wasn't great and went flat, however, I managed to get it back to full charge. Car cranks fine but refuses to fire. After cranking, I pulled a plug and it was completely dry and there is no spark when cranking with the plug against the cam cover. However, I do hear the fuel pump run for about 0.5 seconds after I stop cranking. I have no CEL and no fault codes logged. There is no key warning light on to suggest immobiliser issue. Can anyone suggest any possible causes? I'm going to borrow a crank and cam sensor to see if they are causing issues as I read sometimes they don't cause fault codes. But other than that, what else can I check? Can someone point me in the right direction of some wiring diagrams for a 2001? Thanks in advance, Rich _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower _______________________________________________ iatapower mailing list [email protected] ttp://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
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