El mar, 26 de 10 de 2004 a las 00:29, Evans Engineering escribi�: > Hello, > I did the original design on which the peltric units are base some 25 > years ago and was also asked to look at redesigning the Chinese units > that you have been discussing, for the Chinese Ministry of Agriculture > (because of acute problems with quality control) May I tactfully suggest > that before you jump in and experience the problems experienced by a > dozen other groups with poor quality equipment, that you lay the > foundations for a good local engineering capability.
Certainly! I have been working with a local metalworks to make bronze peltons (bolted, chill casting was a failure), they are not far from a good end result by now. > I make lost wax > cast stainless steel Pelton runners which are good for well over a > hundred metres of head, and I suggest that you do the same. This needs a lot more work, I do not see them disposed to do full lost wax designs, and I fear the price might rise accordingly. If they stick to their initial pricing, 100 USD for a 12 cm bolted bronze pelton is not too bad. I'd like to see this know-how spread to other small and middle-sized metalworks indeed. Alternatively a small turgo would do well too, what I have been lacking is a good design to copy, or a book. > In recent > years many people have become wedded to this turbine or that turbine and > have fallen down on the basics of good engineering, good bearings and > good seals. I have seen some of this here. Even plain, careless sloppy design. > I have had my share of disasters and problems and my only > wish is to try and stop others falling into the same holes!! We need more of that. Lessons learned, experience. Unfortunately the information on errors and "don't do that" does not circuate as easily as successes. For example I have lerned that a wind project in Chilo� has almost stopped working one year after the initial installation, yet the reasons and details aren't readily available... > I have a > new series of packaged microhydro unit 'Hydropack' that concentrates on > getting the electrics and mechanics right and onto which a wide number > of 'wet end' turbines can be fixed (similar the pump industry) The > turbines are interchangeable and cater for heads from about 1 metre up > to 200 metres and power ratings up to about 50 kW. Above this it is > worth adapting the designs for the particular project. Several patents > are pending on this system but there will be no costs associated with > local manufacture for those who wish to cooperate or are NGOs working to > help the rural poor. Verry interesting, could you please send me more details? costs? As for an outline of what I am planning, here is some first resume: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Self-empowerment of the rural poor: Low environmental impact pico hydro electrification in remote areas of North-Western Patagonia Background: Although Chile ranks as an middle-advanced developing country, significant differences in human development and income are still to be seen, especially in its rural areas. An internationally backed government program has been pursuing rural electification by subsidizing the current network extension. This strategy has its limits in a context of very low density, isolated settlements and significant natural obstacles. Moreover, the lack of innovative solutions by local companies results in high generation and transmission costs, and the highest retail electricity prices of the country are found in the area. Western patagonia, essentially composed by the andean mountain chain, boasts a very high potential for micro-hydro solutions, with 3 to 6 m yearly rainfall. Rural inhabitants from remote areas have recently been resorting to purchasing locally produced pico-turbines consisting of a plastic pelton runner directly coupled to a car alternator (battery charger). Power is drawn either directly from the batteries for low voltage DC appliances, or transformed to 220V AC with an inverter. Water is fed to the system with 30 to 50 mm HDP tubing, the required flows are in the 0.5 to 3 l/s range. Each system provides power to one household, which is consistent with the social and geographical distribution of the population. Costs analysis shows it to be cost-effective as compared with the traditional methods used for lighting and appliances (candles, kerosene, third-party battery charging etc.). The productivity gains play a role in poverty alleviation, thus the ongoing process is clearly a desirable one. Significative improvements in quality and extension of the process could be obtained by: * training, support and capacity building for equipment maintainment and electric installations which currently are an obstacle for users. * improved technical solutions, sturdier and more efficient designs, better adapted to the specific needs of the rural poor and the protection of the environment (direct generation of 220 V AC results in the possibility to run a larger set of appliances such as small tools, and suppresses the need to use lead batteries) * microcredits could help widen access and stimulate the above points. Open issues: - Ensuring the right to water of the rural poor for those uses is essential, as it appears more steps should be taken towards this point in the country. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings, Max Klohn > Regards > Rupert Evans Engineering UK > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Craine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 25 October 2004 06:12 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Digest Number 1025 > > > > Can I also suggest a complete unit from Kathmandu Metal Industries, > which is boxed up and ready to operate - called a Peltric set. > > www.nepalmicrohydropower.com > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: chinese turbine sets > From: Michael Lawley > 2. Bronze Turgos in Bolivia > From: Ron and Diane > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:30:16 +1300 > From: Michael Lawley > Subject: Re: chinese turbine sets > > > Hi Carlos, > > Have you tried one of our plastic Pelton rotors? The buckets can be > quickly replaced and are very cheap to purchase if bought in bulk. We > use them commonly in the 45-80m range without significance ware issues. > Above 100m accelerated wear be expected but the cost to replace them is > little. > > I am happy to send you a set for testing. We can make them in just about > any plastic type you like but the minimum run is 1000. > > Regards > > > > Michael Lawley > Renewable Energy Engineer > EcoInnovation > 671 Kent Road > R.D.1 > New Plymouth > New Zealand > > Phone: (NZ) 06 752 2765 > Web site: www.ecoinn.co.nz > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carlos Bonifetti > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: Max Klohn > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 3:41 AM > Subject: Re: [microhydro] chinese turbine sets > > > > Dear Max and all: > > Thanks for your comments. Yes, the PowerPals "high head" sets are > relatively in the lower range for most picohydro sites in chilean > mountains. We need heads grater than, say about 45 m, when we can > harness only very small flows. > > As Nando thinks, plastic runners can be used but made with good quality > plastic compounds. We have here in Concepcion good foundry facilities > for making small metal turgo & Pelton runners. > > Engineer Mauricio Gnecco [EMAIL PROTECTED] , in Colombia, makes small > Pelton runners with recicled aluminum in 1 piece using the "lost wax" > method. It's good but very much time consuming. > > Thanks for your hospitality. When I can program a trip to the south I > can tell you for fix a date in common. > > Regards, > > Carlos > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Max Klohn > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:22 AM > Subject: Re: [microhydro] chinese turbine sets > > > > Dear Carlos and microhydro list, > > Thank you for the specs. Powerpal gear looks good. I believe those are > slightly retooled vietnamese sets. Looking at the specs, even their > "high heads" are quite low by our local standards. The rest of the stuff > is geared to more substantial flows. > Some more facts to consider: > * In spite it rains 3 to 4 m yearly here (!), summer months can be quite > dry and most streamlets tend to run very low. That would be a problem. > This incited me to research higher head/low flow solutions. > * There is *no* road in most of the places where we would like to see > sets installed. The maximum diameter of HDP tubing that it is reasonable > to carry in those conditions is about 2 inches. Agreed, a couple of > those could be run in paralell, but this increases the costs. > > > Someone in the list proposed DC gear. While I (like most of the local > people that have installed something here) currently have this (550 W > with 100 m net head and 1.7 l/s), and it is easier on constraints there > are some clear limits: > > * the kind of inverter that is needed to run fridges, congelators and > washing machines is way too expensive for most of the rural > people budgets, and cheap square-wave inverters just tend to fry with > small tools and fridges. > * The main stimulus for replacing the currently installed base of > installations would be the ability to run fridges and congelators. That > could in turn improve the possibility for additional earnings (i.e. > working with "agrotourism"). That is a typical "hen and egg" problem. > * The main annual cost for the installations is the replacement of old > battery sets (people use cheap casr batteries that only last a couple of > years) > * Disposal of old batteries is a big ecological problem > * Plastic runners just do not cut it with high heads (I had one that > barely lasted one week) > > In brief, we do need a way to generate 220V AC directly. > I have thought that for most cases with high head, a 3000 RPM Weg > induction motor coupled with condensators and an IGC (a la Nigel Smith) > could do. Fridges would probably need to be power-corrected though. > > I have been training a local metalworks to make small bolted, polished > pelton runners, after some trial-and-error the results are starting to > look decent. "Chill-casting" or "two step casting" as advocated in > jeremy Thake's book did not work, it would have significantly reduced > fabrication costs. > > I'd be very glad to meet you in Puerto Varas when you come, but let's > fix the date in advance: I live way out in Todos los Santos, so you also > have the option to come here, stay at my home, and see a couple of > installations. > > Greetings, > > Max > > > El mar, 19 de 10 de 2004 a las 10:37, Carlos Bonifetti escribi�: > > Dear Max: > > > > I'm Carlos from MTF LTDA., Concepcion. I was thinking in your trial > for pico-hydro set for low income peasants in the northern chilean > Patagonia since a lot of time, but the long distance is a trouble for > marketing in site planning. Minimun qty. for low price sets is a must > looking for good import discounts. I can offer Turgo or Pelton sets from > APR PowerPal www.powerpal.com as we are their representatives in Chile. > I was in trouble for answer you because an updating Windows XP had thow > away several mail adresses from my directory. > > > > I know chinese sets from Maqchin, Santiago, but not in practice. The > technical specs. and data for those turbine sets are poor an too general > for heigth, flow ranges, control, etc., for a safe application. > Permanent magnet alternators can be used only for light en uses as > lamps, TV and video sets, radio, and very small domestic electical > powered devices; I think that refrigerator can't connected because the > high starting current. > > > > Our experience with PowerPal is good with the low head MHG-LH sets for > 200, 500 & 1000 Watts, permanent magnet alternators running at 1000 RPM. > Water flow needed for those are 35, 70 and 130 l/s respectively for 1.5 > m gross head. We have, installed by us, a MHG-1000 in the Quinquen > Valley rural school (near Lonquimay) and works well since 1991. > > > > Perhaps will be good that we can both program a meeting in Puerto > Varas for talk, face to face, about this interesting and very important > and common task. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Carlos Bonifetti > > Concepci�n, Chile > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Max Klohn > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:37 AM > > Subject: [microhydro] chinese turbine sets > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > For a project oriented at low-income, isolated mountain dwellers in > > northern patagonia, I have been looking at ready-made, low cost > peltric > > sets, or the possibility to import or have built Induction Motor > > Controllers. Typical parameters are 1-5 l/s and 30 to 100 m head. The > > equipment has to be low cost, low maintainance and robust, and > involves > > a significant component of technology transfer to the rural dwellers > who > > must be able to maintain their equipment. > > > > I have recently come upon the following chinese sets, who feature a > > permanent magnet alternator, a controller and a dump load (integrated > in > > the base). > > > http://www.maqchin.com/maqchin/pages/maquinaria_china_ltda_productos_cen > trales_hidroelectricas.htm > > models of interest are XJL 13-2 x 4.5 (750 W) and XJL 1 x 3.0 (3000 W) > > > > In the model I could examine, the rotor was a relatively crudely built > > (unpolished) turgo. The nozzle is huge and it is geared towards lower > > heights and bigger flows. I am trying to get the parameters of the > > rotational speed etc. > > > > * does someone have more data and a practical experience with those > > sets? lessons learned? > > * any experiences into adapting this equipment to higher heads/lower > > flows? > > > > Thank you, and best regards > > > > Max Klohn > > > > Puerto Varas, Chile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:55:27 -0400 > From: Ron and Diane > Subject: Bronze Turgos in Bolivia > > > > Hello Carlos, > > Perhaps you have seen my www.watermotor.net site. We make bronze > turgo wheels here in Bolivia for our patented Watermotors. I will send > you > a photo. These have been tested and certified here at the University of > San > Andres Hydraulic Institute at 75% efficiency. The one in the photo has a > > 150 mm hydraulic diameter, or about 200 mm overall diameter. You may > notice > our patented power control switch that makes it possible to use the > Watermotor to directly drive machines. > All the best, > Ron Davis, > Campo Nuevo, > La Paz, Bolivia > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of > charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who > provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does > not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at > http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of charge and be > exposed to the microhydro community world wide! > > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who provides us with > free email group services. The microhydro-group does not endorse products or support > the advertisements in any way. > > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net > > To unsubscribe: send empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide! NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does not endorse products or support the advertisements in any way. More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net To unsubscribe: send empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
