Kathryn, Of course, the US ATC system needs help and improvements. But we still need a plan, which we don’t have. In the Forbes.com article, Jeremy Bogaisky <https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/> identified some of the problems (aging buildings, AC, etc.). Where do these fit in the plan? Does FAA plan to move into new buildings? >From what I have been able to find, the US has 313 total ATC facilities, >including 22 centers, 25 tracons, 142 towers and 121 combination >tracons/towers. Let’s face it, a mid-size company has a more complex computer system. Look at banks where you can withdraw funds worldwide, or the stock market, or any brokerage firm. These are mush large, interconnected computer systems than the IS ATC system. Yet how much has FAA spent to “modernize” their ATC facilities? Next, I have always been a fan of the 1990s BDM approach at the High Desert Tracon where they built a separate system. Is this FAA’s plan? Back in the late 1990s, the High Desert Tracon (E10 on Edwards AFB) needed an upgrade. Below is a link to how the High Desert Tracon rapidly rebuilt itelf into a state of the art ATC facility. In Search of the Future of Air Traffic Control <https://spectrum.ieee.org/in-search-of-the-future-of-air-traffic-control> (Tekla S. Perry, 1997-08-01) <https://spectrum.ieee.org/u/tekla-perry> “The development process turned out to be a textbook case of how to design an air traffic control system for the '90s.” “The baseline system cost $10.8 million; the second software release, an additional $1.7 million; and the third software release, now being implemented,$2.3 million more. These figures include the cost of all hardware, software development <https://spectrum.ieee.org/tag/software-development> , documentation, testing, and training for High Desert Tracon and for two military control facilities on Edwards Air Force Base.” Finally, I would be really curious to compare the delays, block time, demand versus capacity, ATC equipment age and type of the US (FAA) ATC system to other ANSPs like Nav Canada, NATS, Air Services Australia, Airways New Zealand and Eurocontrol. Thanks, Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada ATH Group, Inc. cell - (303) 521-6047 <mailto:rmbai...@greenlandings.net> rmbai...@greenlandings.net <http://www.greenlandings.net/> www.GreenLandings.net xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The information contained in this email (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-252 and is confidential and proprietary and should be treated as such. The information contained herein may contain ATH Group, Inc. Privileged/Proprietary Information and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by email or telephone, and destroy the original message and any copies thereof in whatever medium stored. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ATH Group, Inc. is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ATH Group, Inc. Thank you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Kathryn Creedy via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 10:42 To: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com Cc: Kathryn Creedy <kcre...@gmail.com> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 72845] Re: Here's my ATC story Bob, laudable goals, especially considering this is only political theatre on the administration's part. You have long recognized Congress is part of the problem, not the solution. Michael, are you questioning that ATC does not have a safety problem? The entire aviation ecosystem, training, ATC and on and on has major safety problems which cannot be solved by government fiat or theatre. I'd like to see the specifics of the costs to private aviation at NavCanada vs the FAA, which were alluded to in this article. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2025/06/26/why-the-us-should-copy-canada-to-fix-its-broken-air-traffic-control-system/?utm_source=newsletter <https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2025/06/26/why-the-us-should-copy-canada-to-fix-its-broken-air-traffic-control-system/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailydozen&cdlcid=5e33380026f096d31d26a600> &utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailydozen&cdlcid=5e33380026f096d31d26a600 So, if costs rose for private aviation, what were the corresponding operational benefits that mitigated those costs? Private aviation is afraid of airline dominance which would be diff for Canada than the US. I'm afraid of airline dominance too because it has such a negative impact on the consumer. But how does it play out elsewhere? Cheers -- Kathryn On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 1:05 PM R. Michael Baiada via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> > wrote: Bob, While I was not asking you directly, I appreciate the response. * Increase safety by separating ATC safety regulation (FAA) from ATC service provision (Air Traffic Organization). Self-regulation is a conflict of interest; ICAO called for this kind of organizational separation in 2001 and most countries have done this. While it may be a conflict of interest, how does privatization directly “Increase safety by separating ATC safety regulation (FAA) from ATC service provision (Air Traffic Organization)” and by how much (e.g. 10%, 20%, etc.). * Properly finance and rebuild a capital-investment-starved system with ancient technology and aging, sometimes-decrepit facilities. While I agree, does anyone have a breakdown of the age of the US ATC systems, system by system? Exactly which are “decrepit”? Many systems have been replaced in the last 20 years (ERAM, STARS, etc.). Exactly which systems need to be replaced first, and in what order and timetable? * Restore professional staffing, such as systems engineers, to free the Air Traffic Organization from dependence on aerospace contractors. I agree. * Increase productivity, as Nav Canada has done. Productivity of what, and by how much? How is Nav Canada’s productivity measured and how is higher than FAA’s? I believe that a new ATC system needs much more specific goals. FAA has been told to work harder, do better and spend more for decades, without success. In what way does Privatization change this? Before we conclude that Privatization is better for FAA, we need many more answers. Thanks, Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada ATH Group, Inc. cell - (303) 521-6047 <mailto:rmbai...@greenlandings.net> rmbai...@greenlandings.net <http://www.greenlandings.net/> www.GreenLandings.net xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The information contained in this email (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-252 and is confidential and proprietary and should be treated as such. The information contained herein may contain ATH Group, Inc. Privileged/Proprietary Information and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by email or telephone, and destroy the original message and any copies thereof in whatever medium stored. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ATH Group, Inc. is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ATH Group, Inc. Thank you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: bob.poole--- via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 09:15 To: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> Cc: bob.po...@reason.org <mailto:bob.po...@reason.org> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 72843] Re: Here's my ATC story My goals for ATC “corporatization” in one form or another are to: * Increase safety by separating ATC safety regulation (FAA) from ATC service provision (Air Traffic Organization). Self-regulation is a conflict of interest; ICAO called for this kind of organizational separation in 2001 and most countries have done this. * Properly finance and rebuild a capital-investment-starved system with ancient technology and aging, sometimes-decrepit facilities. * Restore professional staffing, such as systems engineers, to free the Air Traffic Organization from dependence on aerospace contractors. * Increase productivity, as Nav Canada has done. Those goals are absent in the “brand new air traffic system” proposal, which would subsidize a poorly performing status quo. Nav Canada demonstrates all four of these improvements, as the Forbes article explains. Bob Poole From: ATHGroup--- via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 11:25 AM To: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> Cc: athgr...@baiada.com <mailto:athgr...@baiada.com> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 72841] Re: Here's my ATC story Before the US embarks on ATC Privatization, we should build a detailed plan and identify the program goals, which I have yet to see. So far, all I hear about is throwing more money at FAA to buy new equipment. If ATC Privatization is meant to lower FAA’s costs, this is an admirable goal, but what is the target reduction and how is planned to be achieved? If ATC Privatization is meant to increase ATC efficiency, by how much and what does increasing ATC efficiency mean? If ATC Privatization is meant to reduce airline delays, it will never happen since ATC is not the root cause of airline delays. Does Nav Canada, NATS or Eurocontrol have less delays than the US (at airports with comparable traffic density)? In my 40 years of flying, I did not notice any appreciably difference in the ATC function or service anywhere in the world. Finally, as long as the airlines sit on the sidelines as cheerleaders instead of participants/leaders, while refusing to define how they want to fly their aircraft, little will change. Michael xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx R. Michael Baiada cell - (303) 521-6047 rmbai...@greenlandings.net <mailto:rmbai...@greenlandings.net> From: bob.poole--- via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 08:01 To: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com <mailto:mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> Cc: bob.po...@reason.org <mailto:bob.po...@reason.org> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 72840] FW: Here's my ATC story Here is an article on ATC reform just out from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2025/06/26/why-the-us-should-copy-canada-to-fix-its-broken-air-traffic-control-system/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507
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