The old chestnuts roll down the hill in search of the other old, lost chestnuts. Craig's reasoning, fortunately as flawed as mine, has him not believing in all Unicorns on the basis of not believing in pink ones. Unreliable propositions have a tendency to "prove" all others (or that logic can make an arse of us all). Atheist spleen is as easy as any other to raise by jibe and unfairness. Bureaucracy is as likely to raise mine as anything else, or rather its abuse in covering up the horrible abuse and death of babies, lying by public figures and a grim case in Norwich where council officers evicted pensioners in order to live in their houses at reduced rents. I hardly care that Craig (as an exemplar) is a Mormon, but care greatly he seems remarkably unlikely to do any of the above. The same applies across the board. Over the past couple of decades in the UK we have taken women who have suffered great personal tragedy through cot deaths to court and convicted them on highly unreliable expert evidence, whilst showing ourselves inept in the extreme in safeguarding kids suffering real abuse. We have apparently believed in ritual abuse and the honesty of bwankers and live in a cult of celebrity. Gods, whether they exist beyond our words or not, seem not to care. I dislike professed belief in the ludicrous and ancient text, but I dislike violence much more. In the end any truth that gets used to justify horror is no truth at all, just another regime of it. One needs to be careful with the notion of tides of evidence and reason lying in the human mind. Orwell's 1984 is the classic warning. I would see neither Chaz nor Orn in favour of Doublespeak and the rest, but it was key in 1984 that truth was in mind and thus the corrupt government could make all truth. The evidence of observation once pointed to an Earth older than the universe that contains it. I like to think we are getting better at observation and thinking about it. There is much in religion I actually like, much that seems as grim as any bureaucracy. I believe we need politics, yet usually dislike politicians when they use ideology simply to retain power (pace Nazis and Mugabe). I have a colleague racked with problems in her religious belief at the moment. This does not prevent her using searing intellect and complex analysis. She is not so stuck in narcissism that she does not know where my "atheist caring" comes from. I have little doubt religion is a product of many language games, including some I would regard as decent and others just perverse attempts by serial killers to assure us we should release them, or politicians that we should trust them. We talk about little that really matters.
On 12 Jan, 01:18, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > Orn, > I was awaiting Chaz's response, but that was the next question I was > going to ask. > > On Jan 11, 6:05 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "...Neither truth nor god exist outside of the human mind. Both are > > human concepts which rise or fall against the tides of evidence and > > reason. ..." - chaz > > > Yes, and said 'tides of evidence and reason' reside in exactly the > > same place too! > > > On Jan 11, 9:50 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Jan 10, 7:00 pm, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Are they so assured that God does not exist but truth does? > > > > Neither truth nor god exist outside of the human mind. Both are human > > > concepts which rise or fall against the tides of evidence and reason. > > > The main difference is that god has lost the argument but truth can > > > still be found despite this simple fact. > > > > > On Jan 10, 11:38 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 10 Jan., 19:30, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:> > > > > > Where do Atheists find such passion? > > > > > > In a love of truth ... and honesty?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
