If you don't trust judges, lawyers, or prosecutors, then what is the point of bringing the case before a court? And have you ever been in a prosecutor's office? I have, my applications are also all going to prosecuting attorney's offices. They have to use discretion, otherwise the burden on the taxpayer would be so overwhelming that this country would be broke. A prosecutor has to decide before hand which cases he's going to try and which ones he is not. If it is clear that he isn't going to win a case, then he drops uses his discretion to not follow it. I think the burglar busting the window and proceeding to come in was a pretty clear cut case. The case in Texas of the man shooting the burglars OUTSIDE the home. Not so much. If I were a prosecutor I would have taken that one to trial. But it was in texas and their law allows for the protecting of property at night. If it was a night then the prosecutor would have lost before it even got to a jury. I don't know the Irishman case, so I can't comment.
On Feb 4, 10:51 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't like policemen, prosecutors, lawyers or even judges.....It's a > matter of what they... the "authorities"... call "discretion". They > get to decide what is or is not a crime, by their own interpretation > of a "legal definition", as applied to any specific set of "facts". > Not a Damn Thing makes the "authorities" notions of "discretion" any > more worthy than my own or anyone else's interpretations of law or > rights , I don't think. > In the Horn case, it was left to the "discretion" of a policeman, > first on the scene, to decide whether the killing of two "hispanic" > burglars was justified.... Burglary, in and of itself, is not legally > punished by a Death Penalty... not even in Texas. In Colorado, it was > a "prosecutor" that decided the killing of a drunken young > "Irishman" was alright.... Drunken and Disorderly, in and of itself, > is not punished by a Death Penalty (if there even is one)... I don't > think, in Colorado. > At the least, I think that all of these civilian Self-defense shooting > cases should be automatically brought to court before judges in an > adversarial legal setting and I think the same should hold for all > police shootings, as well. > nominal9 > > On Feb 4, 11:42 am, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > That isn't a controversial case to me. The man was drunk, and even > > after repeated demands that the man leave, he continued to break in. > > That to me is reasonable fear for your life. And are you kidding me, > > that article said that they should have left the home? That is > > absolute BS. There is one place in the entire world where someone has > > a right to feel safe, and that is there home. I have a hard time > > believing that that guy was mistaken about the house. There were > > people inside yelling and telling him to leave. Who breaks a window > > on their house? If he locked himself out, you get a locksmith. If I > > were the prosecutor I would have done the exact same thing. Its a sad > > thing if it was a mistake. Its sad that a man had to die. But those > > people were in reasonable fear for their life and had every right to > > protect themselves. > > > On Feb 4, 9:11 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > But then again.....How about, getting to the issue of WHEN to use such > > > deadly force?.... Don brought up the Horn case, in Texas (that I > > > thought was not a warranted shooting).... here's another case > > > recently in the news... Sean Kennedy, in Colorado Springs.... > > > nominal9 > > > Original thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/21218.html > > > > Source > > > URL:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/02/shooting-death-fuels-... > > > > COLORADO SPRINGS > > > Sean Kennedy, a 22-year-old golf pro, drunkenly banged on the door, > > > yelled obscenities and smashed a window as he tried to enter what he > > > thought was his house. > > > > But it wasn't his home. The house, located a block from Mr. Kennedy's > > > residence, but showing the same house number, belonged to James > > > Parsons. As Mr. Kennedy reached his arm through the broken window in > > > an effort to unlock the back door, Mr. Parsons, who was inside with > > > his girlfriend, shot and killed him. > > > > Colorado Springs prosecutors last week exonerated Mr. Parsons, saying > > > that he acted within the scope of the state's "Make My Day" law, which > > > allows homeowners to use deadly force against intruders. > > > > "A reasonable person in those circumstances would have believed that > > > [Mr. Kennedy] was going to do a crime against them or their property," > > > District Attorney Dan May said. > > > > Nonetheless, the decision reignited debate over whether such laws > > > allow homeowners to use more force than necessary in their defense. > > > Critics argue that the laws, which have proliferated in recent years, > > > have essentially given homeowners a license to kill. > > > > "What's happening among gun owners is that there's less accountability > > > and less responsibility," said Scott Vogel, spokesman for the Freedom > > > States Alliance in Chicago, which opposes the "Make My Day" laws. "Gun > > > owners are taking these laws and drawing their own conclusions and > > > using them as a 'get out of jail free' card." > > > > The debate is likely to intensify as more states adopt and expand such > > > statutes. Since 1985, 16 states have approved "Make My Day" statutes - > > > known to critics as "Shoot to Kill" laws - with more legislation > > > expected this year, said Sam Hoover, staff attorney for the Legal > > > Community Against Violence in San Francisco. > > > > Besides Colorado, the 15 other states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, > > > Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, > > > Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina and South Dakota, Mr. > > > Hoover said. > > > > Even in states that have approved such laws, however, deciding whether > > > the statute applies can be tricky. Colorado Springs prosecutors > > > wrestled with the case for a month before deciding against filing > > > charges in the Dec. 28 shooting. > > > > About 10 p.m., Mr. Kennedy, who had been drinking at a Denver Broncos > > > football party with friends, drove up in his truck to the house at > > > 3212 Virginia Ave. and tried to enter. Police say he was looking for a > > > house he shared with roommates at 3212 N. Institute St., located a > > > block away. His blood alcohol level was later tested at 0.26, more > > > than three times the legal limit of 0.08 for driving in Colorado. > > > > When Mr. Parsons and his girlfriend heard the pounding at the door, > > > they called 911 and pleaded for help. Mr. Parsons' girlfriend stayed > > > on the phone for about 4 1/2 minutes, during which time the shots were > > > fired. > > > > "Oh, my God, he's coming in the back door," said the woman, who was > > > not identified, during the call. "Are they on their way because - oh > > > my God, he broke in the glass!" > > > At that point, Mr. Kennedy had walked around the house and broken a > > > window next to the back door. He was reaching through the broken glass > > > to unlock the dead bolt when Mr. Parsons fired three shots through the > > > window with a .38 Special. > > > > "Get the ambulance! I shot him," Mr. Parsons said in the background. > > > "He broke his arm in the window, and he was coming in the house!" > > > > Mr. May said the panicky call and efforts by the homeowners to deter > > > Mr. Kennedy - they shouted for him to leave several times - offered > > > proof that they were in fear for their safety. > > > > The Colorado law states that "citizens of Colorado have a right to > > > expect absolute safety within their own homes," and that lethal force > > > may be used against someone who illegally enters a dwelling with the > > > intent to commit a crime or use physical force against the occupant. > > > > "The evidence from the dispatch tape and from investigative interviews > > > indicated that they were both terrified during this incident and were > > > traumatized by these events," said Mr. May in a statement. > > > > One point of contention was whether Mr. Kennedy could be considered an > > > intruder, since he never actually entered the home. Prosecutors said > > > that having his arm inside the house constituted breaking and > > > entering. > > > > "It doesn't have to be the entire body. His arm was in the house," > > > Deputy District Attorney Gail Warkentin said. "Breaking and entering > > > might have been breaking the lock on the screen door - it could be as > > > little as that - but certainly after he had his arm in the house." > > > > Mr. Kennedy's family remains distraught over the shooting, she said. > > > After graduating from high school in 2004, Mr. Kennedy had worked as a > > > golf pro at two Colorado Springs golf clubs. > > > > "I spoke to Sean's father, and he's obviously grieving for his son. He > > > told me he wished the homeowner had shown more restraint," Ms. > > > Warkentin said. "He said his son didn't deserve to die." > > > > Critics called the Kennedy case a classic example of a fatality that > > > could have been avoided if the homeowner had taken evasive action - > > > for example, leaving the house through the front door - but having a > > > "Make My Day" law on the books makes it less likely that homeowners > > > will do so. > > > > "There's every indication that this gun owner could have shouted at > > > this guy, yelled at him," Mr. Vogel said. "Instead, even though he > > > hadn't been harmed, he just shot him. You didn't sense that he and his > > > girlfriend were in immediate peril, and that used to be the > > > standard." > > > > Dudley Brown, president of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, said the couple > > > couldn't have known how violent Mr. Kennedy was, or whether he was > > > armed. > > > > "There's no such thing as 'shoot to wound.' That's only in movies," > > > said Mr. Brown, a certified firearms instructor. "They made their best > > > effort to let law enforcement deal with it, but here's a news flash > > > for liberals: The police can't always be there when you're in > > > trouble." > > > > Despite the debate, "Make My Day" laws remain popular with state > > > legislatures, with new bills introduced every year to implement or > > > expand such laws. > > > > In Colorado, a legislative committee last week heard testimony on > > > behalf of a bill known as "Make My Day Better," which would extend the > > > law to include businesses. But the bill was killed in committee on a > > > straight party-line vote, with Democrats voting against and > > > Republicans voting in favor. > > > > On Feb 3, 7:20 pm, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "In my experience" gun control advocates are much more aggressive than > > > > gun advocates. (I hope its obvious that I'm making fun of Ian :) ) > > > > > On Feb 3, 4:39 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > (First person to mention Switzerland gets bitch-slapped.) > > > > > > Ian > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
