nom, Are you sure we disagree? I am not arguing that those who try to hide behind a self defense claim in order to get away with murder, should be allowed to get away with murder. I am only saying, that prosecutor's are in privileged position of seeing more evidence than any jury will ever see. He gets to see evidence that will never make it into trial. He knows what the strength of his case is. If it appears to him by clear and convincing evidence that the defendants in the case had a reasonable to fear for their life, then in his discretion I believe he would be right to drop the case. Why put someone like that in jail? They aren't malicious. They aren't dangerous. They had a REASONABLE fear that their lives were being put in jeopardy. And if that's the case, then there is nothing for the jury to hear. Even if the one who was killed was completely innocent. What a tragedy, but why heap tragedy upon tragedy?
On Feb 4, 8:53 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > If you don't trust judges, lawyers, or prosecutors, then what is the > point of bringing the case before a court? / KC > > Trial by jury of twelve... peers....It isn't without it's own flaws > but, in some cases, it can get past the Incompetence, Negligence, Bias- > Bigotry-Prejudice, or the Dirty Corruption of the so-called > "discretion" used by of the Police, the Prosecutors and the > Judges.... > > And have you ever been in > a prosecutor's office? / KC > > No, but I have had some dealings with them... trying to get them to > prosecute "crimes" on my behalf, as a plaintiff.... which is why I > don't like their (Police and Prosecutor) Incompetence, Negligence, > Bias-Bigotry-Prejudice, and Dirty Corruption, that sometimes goes by > the name of "discretion". As for Judges... I've appeared before quite > a few of those, again as a Pliantiff, trying to assert my own rights > in civil cases... once as a defendant in a traffic accident insurance > case, too. I filed judicial complaints against most of those judges > that I litigated before with the appropriate judicial review boards... > they all used their "discretion" and denied me jury trials....U.S. > Justice isn't what it's made out to be on the TV shows.... a lot more > of the really BAD GUYS get away, if they have some connection or pull, > even before they get to the "judgment stage". And on the flip side, > quite a few "criminals" get railroaded or framed for things that they > haven't done. DNA testing is proving quite a few convicted so-called > rapists innocent.... transfer those percentages into other crime areas > where factual proofs at the level of DNA aren't available, to get an > idea of about how many innocent people overall are wrongly behind > bars... that's a "factual" likelyhood, too. > > We disagree on this one KC. My take is that Humans are fallible and > Justice should be as diligent as possible, and as careful as possible > before it allows for a death to occur... be it a self-defense shooting > or a legal Death Penalty... death is one of those things that you > can't come back from.... > nominal9 > On Feb 4, 1:16 pm, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > If you don't trust judges, lawyers, or prosecutors, then what is the > > point of bringing the case before a court? And have you ever been in > > a prosecutor's office? I have, my applications are also all going to > > prosecuting attorney's offices. They have to use discretion, > > otherwise the burden on the taxpayer would be so overwhelming that > > this country would be broke. A prosecutor has to decide before hand > > which cases he's going to try and which ones he is not. If it is > > clear that he isn't going to win a case, then he drops uses his > > discretion to not follow it. I think the burglar busting the window > > and proceeding to come in was a pretty clear cut case. The case in > > Texas of the man shooting the burglars OUTSIDE the home. Not so > > much. If I were a prosecutor I would have taken that one to trial. > > But it was in texas and their law allows for the protecting of > > property at night. If it was a night then the prosecutor would have > > lost before it even got to a jury. I don't know the Irishman case, so > > I can't comment. > > > On Feb 4, 10:51 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I don't like policemen, prosecutors, lawyers or even judges.....It's a > > > matter of what they... the "authorities"... call "discretion". They > > > get to decide what is or is not a crime, by their own interpretation > > > of a "legal definition", as applied to any specific set of "facts". > > > Not a Damn Thing makes the "authorities" notions of "discretion" any > > > more worthy than my own or anyone else's interpretations of law or > > > rights , I don't think. > > > In the Horn case, it was left to the "discretion" of a policeman, > > > first on the scene, to decide whether the killing of two "hispanic" > > > burglars was justified.... Burglary, in and of itself, is not legally > > > punished by a Death Penalty... not even in Texas. In Colorado, it was > > > a "prosecutor" that decided the killing of a drunken young > > > "Irishman" was alright.... Drunken and Disorderly, in and of itself, > > > is not punished by a Death Penalty (if there even is one)... I don't > > > think, in Colorado. > > > At the least, I think that all of these civilian Self-defense shooting > > > cases should be automatically brought to court before judges in an > > > adversarial legal setting and I think the same should hold for all > > > police shootings, as well. > > > nominal9 > > > > On Feb 4, 11:42 am, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > That isn't a controversial case to me. The man was drunk, and even > > > > after repeated demands that the man leave, he continued to break in. > > > > That to me is reasonable fear for your life. And are you kidding me, > > > > that article said that they should have left the home? That is > > > > absolute BS. There is one place in the entire world where someone has > > > > a right to feel safe, and that is there home. I have a hard time > > > > believing that that guy was mistaken about the house. There were > > > > people inside yelling and telling him to leave. Who breaks a window > > > > on their house? If he locked himself out, you get a locksmith. If I > > > > were the prosecutor I would have done the exact same thing. Its a sad > > > > thing if it was a mistake. Its sad that a man had to die. But those > > > > people were in reasonable fear for their life and had every right to > > > > protect themselves. > > > > > On Feb 4, 9:11 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > But then again.....How about, getting to the issue of WHEN to use such > > > > > deadly force?.... Don brought up the Horn case, in Texas (that I > > > > > thought was not a warranted shooting).... here's another case > > > > > recently in the news... Sean Kennedy, in Colorado Springs.... > > > > > nominal9 > > > > > Original thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/21218.html > > > > > > Source > > > > > URL:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/02/shooting-death-fuels-... > > > > > > COLORADO SPRINGS > > > > > Sean Kennedy, a 22-year-old golf pro, drunkenly banged on the door, > > > > > yelled obscenities and smashed a window as he tried to enter what he > > > > > thought was his house. > > > > > > But it wasn't his home. The house, located a block from Mr. Kennedy's > > > > > residence, but showing the same house number, belonged to James > > > > > Parsons. As Mr. Kennedy reached his arm through the broken window in > > > > > an effort to unlock the back door, Mr. Parsons, who was inside with > > > > > his girlfriend, shot and killed him. > > > > > > Colorado Springs prosecutors last week exonerated Mr. Parsons, saying > > > > > that he acted within the scope of the state's "Make My Day" law, which > > > > > allows homeowners to use deadly force against intruders. > > > > > > "A reasonable person in those circumstances would have believed that > > > > > [Mr. Kennedy] was going to do a crime against them or their property," > > > > > District Attorney Dan May said. > > > > > > Nonetheless, the decision reignited debate over whether such laws > > > > > allow homeowners to use more force than necessary in their defense. > > > > > Critics argue that the laws, which have proliferated in recent years, > > > > > have essentially given homeowners a license to kill. > > > > > > "What's happening among gun owners is that there's less accountability > > > > > and less responsibility," said Scott Vogel, spokesman for the Freedom > > > > > States Alliance in Chicago, which opposes the "Make My Day" laws. "Gun > > > > > owners are taking these laws and drawing their own conclusions and > > > > > using them as a 'get out of jail free' card." > > > > > > The debate is likely to intensify as more states adopt and expand such > > > > > statutes. Since 1985, 16 states have approved "Make My Day" statutes - > > > > > known to critics as "Shoot to Kill" laws - with more legislation > > > > > expected this year, said Sam Hoover, staff attorney for the Legal > > > > > Community Against Violence in San Francisco. > > > > > > Besides Colorado, the 15 other states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, > > > > > Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, > > > > > Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina and South Dakota, Mr. > > > > > Hoover said. > > > > > > Even in states that have approved such laws, however, deciding whether > > > > > the statute applies can be tricky. Colorado Springs prosecutors > > > > > wrestled with the case for a month before deciding against filing > > > > > charges in the Dec. 28 shooting. > > > > > > About 10 p.m., Mr. Kennedy, who had been drinking at a Denver Broncos > > > > > football party with friends, drove up in his truck to the house at > > > > > 3212 Virginia Ave. and tried to enter. Police say he was looking for a > > > > > house he shared with roommates at 3212 N. Institute St., located a > > > > > block away. His blood alcohol level was later tested at 0.26, more > > > > > than three times the legal limit of 0.08 for driving in Colorado. > > > > > > When Mr. Parsons and his girlfriend heard the pounding at the door, > > > > > they called 911 and pleaded for help. Mr. Parsons' girlfriend stayed > > > > > on the phone for about 4 1/2 minutes, during which time the shots were > > > > > fired. > > > > > > "Oh, my God, he's coming in the back door," said the woman, who was > > > > > not identified, during the call. "Are they on their way because - oh > > > > > my God, he broke in the glass!" > > > > > At that point, Mr. Kennedy had walked around the house and broken a > > > > > window next to the back door. He was reaching through the broken glass > > > > > to unlock the dead bolt when Mr. Parsons fired three shots through the > > > > > window with a .38 Special. > > > > > > "Get the ambulance! I shot him," Mr. Parsons said in the background. > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
