On 23 Feb, 11:08, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> The gain is always from the personal view, as you say "the ground 'we'
> gained". The draft really reduces military capability in the sense of
> skill and dedication, it's just bodies that don't really have any
> interest in service or heroism. I don't see that anyone has the right
> to force a ordinarily peaceful person to commandeer a weapon and kill
> people without the component of self defense. In time what seems to
> have been gained may revert back to the way it was, as has been
> demonstrated in history. At the time it all seems right and lives are
> lost but in retrospect one can see the waste.
> I think it is the rulers that need to come to grips with peace
> management and stop frivolous decision making that causes sacrifice.
> I would have much rather watch GW and Saddam in a pit fighting with a
> knife, mano e mano, to settle out their differences. GW yells "you
> tried to kill my daddy and now I'm going to kill you", then they go at
> it. All humor aside though, the reality remains, soldiers most often
> have no idea what they are doing on a battle field or the political
> reasoning behind it, they just serve to eradicate someone who has been
> deemed enemy. What ground have we really gained? Will Iraq be
> another VM? You may be right about the Saudi's, UAE, Turkey and the
> frenzied land grab that may ensue, upon the exist strategy.
> Yes, very interesting times! Times for which I await the outcome of
> with wetted anticipation.
>
"Whetted", Slip. Unless, of course, this kind of thing gets you wet
(perhaps too much information!!). ;-)
> On Feb 22, 9:07 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I saw the Body Worlds exhibit last week and it was fascinating(last
> > day was today). I always enjoy seeing art and science combined to
> > create something extraordinary although I'll never look at a rack of
> > BBQ ribs quite the same way again.
>
> > The neo-con in me doesn't want to give up the ground we've gained(not
> > worth the blood and treasure surely, but still gained). I see
> > problems ahead and we need entrenched military posts in that region.
> > I don't trust Saudi Arabia or the UAE or Turkey to remain our
> > 'friends' when all hell breaks out. I'm afraid our enemies smell
> > blood with all the weakness we are showing and will take every
> > advantage. Isolationism in this day and age is simply not in our best
> > interest. Or the interests of the world I'd wager.
>
> > I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am. I'm afraid we'll need all
> > of the President's prodigious charisma to get this country through the
> > coming hard times. He may very well reinstate the draft and compulsory
> > service. Democrats have been pushing for this for some time and now
> > they can pretty much get whatever they want. It would be one way to
> > remove young people from the domestic job pool and shore up a
> > stretched thin military force. The future is scary.
>
> > We certainly live in interesting times. Ancient Chinese curse and all.
>
> > dj
>
> > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Don, really, the abandonment may be a good thing, though as you say it
> > > might turn out to be the killing field. What I'm thinking is, let it
> > > happen and it will all settle out one way or another. The reason we
> > > are always concerned about it is because 'We' want it to turn out in
> > > our favor. We, the US, have had our own killing field here,
> > > historically, and so it just settled out the way it did. How many
> > > lives have been needlessly lost thanks to intervention? I think
> > > barbarianism spans multiple cultures and in a sense has permeated
> > > societies in cult oriented microcosms. We are not aware of the
> > > atrocities until they appear on the nightly news and then we are
> > > shocked and dismayed to think that this stuff still goes on.
> > > The exhibit sounds intriguing and I might consider a drive over from
> > > SA. My wife is always hinting that she wants us to go somewhere. It
> > > 's only a few hours off and I'm thinking about the great restaurants
> > > available there. It's something to consider and her birthday is on
> > > the 3rd but in all actuality I will first have to decipher her desire
> > > to witness a Genghis Khan exhibit. Maybe I can Khan her into it!
>
> > > On Feb 22, 5:02 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> I get your point Arch. When I use the word 'barbarian' I generally
> > >> think of the Mongol variety rather then the Germanic variety. Not
> > >> that it matters much. Who am I to judge? I am eagerly awaiting the
> > >> Genghis Khan exhibit coming to HMNS at the end of the month. I plan
> > >> to learn something.
>
> > >> dj
>
> > >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:33 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> > The 'barbarians' have just turned out generally to be more peaceful,
> > >> > cultured and so on the Roman (Church) history led us to believe Don.
> > >> > It's only that use I have a bit of a problem with. In Francis' sense
> > >> > the awful stuff sometimes seems everywhere.
>
> > >> > On 22 Feb, 22:21, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >> It does my heart good to hear Iran and N. Korea referred to as 'piss
> > >> >> ant.' I concur. It remains to be seen whether the 3rd former 'axis
> > >> >> of evil' country will remain liberated after we abandon them to their
> > >> >> neighbors. This is one Obama promise I really hope he does break.
> > >> >> One can argue against the judgment of the original invasion and
> > >> >> certainly the way the war was conducted but abandonment now seems
> > >> >> unconscionable. It will be the killing fields all over again. Is
> > >> >> Obama really prepared to be responsible for such an atrocity? With
> > >> >> his history of voting 'present' I think not. Obama has many favorable
> > >> >> qualities but courage does not seem to be one of them.
>
> > >> >> I confess to being a big fan of Dirty Harry. Magnum Force was a
> > >> >> thrill. I highly recommend Eastwood's newest crime drama "Gran
> > >> >> Torino." That said I would never dream of confronting 'punks' like
> > >> >> he does. I am not a police officer. I would only use my weapon to
> > >> >> defend life and for no other reason. Since I have moved to a much
> > >> >> nicer neighborhood there is little chance I will get my day
> > >> >> made.(knock on wood)
>
> > >> >> dj
>
> > >> >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > Don, I would strongly agree on the rapid and sometimes rabid
> > >> >> > dissemination of information point. Exposure has it's way of
> > >> >> > awakening those who think their atrocities are OK in their own
> > >> >> > private
> > >> >> > little minds. China seems to still be chopping heads off in the
> > >> >> > public square and issuing death penalties for corporate
> > >> >> > mismanagement,
> > >> >> > so I don't know that it is a universal concept. As you say the
> > >> >> > reduction of blatant offenses may be attributed to global exposure
> > >> >> > but
> > >> >> > the fact is some countries just don't really care.
> > >> >> > Concerning Pinker's historical splay of violence, he might as well
> > >> >> > added the stepping on of ants and insects as a demonstration of
> > >> >> > humanity's penchant for violent behavior. I don't see humanity's
> > >> >> > reduction of violence but rather see it as simply wearing a
> > >> >> > different
> > >> >> > costume, like the wolf in sheep's clothing. Predators, in
> > >> >> > recognition
> > >> >> > of the exposure risks, seek new ways to camouflage their devious
> > >> >> > practices. Pinker fails to produce statistics concurrent with
> > >> >> > modernist methods of concealing violence, as in the trendy practice
> > >> >> > of
> > >> >> > human trafficking for various exploitations. While it is true we no
> > >> >> > longer burn cats for entertainment purpose it is also true that we
> > >> >> > now
> > >> >> > find reason to exterminate our own children for convenience, and
> > >> >> > anyone else who gets in our way. You have your concealed weapon
> > >> >> > permit and it's only a matter of time before someone will actually
> > >> >> > make your day. Piss ant countries are fine tuning their pernicious
> > >> >> > weapons capability ready to dispense death in a perfunctory manner,
> > >> >> > essentially rendering Pinker's view imaginary.
> > >> >> > I don't know where religion fits in as I don't have any inclination
> > >> >> > towards it.
> > >> >> > I think you are realistically cynical.
>
> > >> >> > On Feb 21, 4:17 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >> >> Does anyone else have problems taking seriously a grown man in such
> > >> >> >> dire need of a haircut? It's distracting. Anyway, I think he's
> > >> >> >> on to
> > >> >> >> something here. The biggest reason violence is down is the rapid
> > >> >> >> dissemination of information and the difficulty in disguising gross
> > >> >> >> injustice. Governments want the rest of the world to think highly
> > >> >> >> of
> > >> >> >> them and aggressively promote themselves with favorable PR. This
> > >> >> >> reduces the likelihood of blatant, uncalled for aggression. I
> > >> >> >> don't
> > >> >> >> think we are at all nobler but I do think we all like to at least
> > >> >> >> appear to be so.
>
> > >> >> >> It ties in nicely with my theory of why religion was invented. An
> > >> >> >> Omnipotent being judging your every move is motivation to behave.
> > >> >> >> I
> > >> >> >> don't believe in Santa Claus any more but I do believe in the
> > >> >> >> power of
> > >> >> >> the Press. And the internet. I wonder how long before our leaders
> > >> >> >> find a way to suppress it or bend it to their will? Oh wait, we're
> > >> >> >> already there. Google in China. Most major American newspapers
> > >> >> >> except the WSJ are in the tank for President Obama. All
> > >> >> >> cheerleaders
> > >> >> >> for waste. We are squandering our global advantage. I understand
> > >> >> >> why
> > >> >> >> international news agencies like the AP and Reuters would be in
> > >> >> >> favor
> > >> >> >> of a socialist president but the fawning of our own papers is a
> > >> >> >> little
> > >> >> >> disconcerting.
>
> ...
>
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