It's always struck me people in desperate circumstances do desperate things - the idea is not to let things get desperate. Sue and I chose not to watch Hotel Rwanda - we weren't up to it with our crazy, fire- bombing neighbour on the loose. I would guess that Rwanda (and the Balkans) actually makes Pinker's point. He was broadly dismissing the noble savage myth. Genocide has been very common in human history. The Japanese even have a hornet that practises something like it in attacks on bee hives (they kill thousands by decapitation). Pinker is no defender of current capitalist pathologies - he's really trying to get us to realise we are not making much use of the knowledge we do have on human nature - especially that nature-nurture debates are past their time. We should be trying to establish the balance not assert either one as absolute. Nor should we deny our killing capabilities or need for the rule of law. Racism is chronic in our species - yet race is an explanation for about nothing.
On 24 Feb, 00:05, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, Hotel Rwanda is a good movie and one in my collection, it was not > only a difficult movie to watch but one that boggles minds considering > that it's occurrence in our time seems misplaced. The Georgian issue > and others that start up and then cease with international > condemnation are similar in that left unchecked, unbridled, they would > most likely fester into something as bad a Rwanda. Pinker's > presentation and style is very persuasive but his arguments are for > me very questionable, it's like survey stats. If there is progress it > is hardly noticeable and I would need a lot more evidence to convince > me. One thing we should look at as well is how much of human violence > is actually justified as survival or defense mechanisms. These > specific incidences should be eliminated from the over all > conclusions. > > On Feb 23, 4:15 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I've just finished re-watching "Hotel Rwanda." It makes me a bit > > sceptical about Pinker's arguments. I don't know how much further it > > brings us to compare Genghis Khan with Hitler or the Thirty Years War > > with Rwanda and then claim, all in all, we're getting better. How much > > sense is there really in comparing the different circles of hell? > > There is progress, as Richard points out, but we still have a very > > long way to go. > > > Francis > > > On 21 Feb., 03:47, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I do have this tendency to throw public notables out on a bed of nails > > > to see which of you are inclined to take some steps across them. > > > Ouch! However, this is not just about curiosity but evaluation of my > > > views for either reinforcement or modification. > > > Steven Pinker, the Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of > > > Psychology at Harvard University has a lecture video in which he > > > asserts humans to be peaceful by nature and merely corrupted by modern > > > institutions and concluding that we are living very peaceful lives by > > > historical comparisons. > > > Pinker writes, "Now that social scientists have started to count > > > bodies in different historical periods, they have discovered that the > > > romantic theory gets it backward: Far from causing us to become more > > > violent, something in modernity and its cultural institutions has made > > > us nobler." > > > This approach is a combination of empirical and biological study in > > > contrast to former assertions formed upon human cultures and > > > socialization without regard to biological recognition. > > > Steven Pinker concludes that violence in the world has actually > > > decreased, and conveys this idea in his "A History of Violence" > > > lecturehttp://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/163 > > > I for one never conceived of the notion but have tossed some bones > > > around with my good friend gruff, who also asserts that mankind has > > > made significant strides in the quest for a more peaceful existence in > > > contrast to my view that man is as violent now as ever and desires > > > aggressive conflict in perpetuity. > > > I think Pinker's inclusion of such behaviors as cat burning in 16th > > > century Paris is a stretch to expand the degree of historical > > > violence, as is reference to human sacrifice, slavery, governmental > > > conquests, real estate acquisition via genocide, torture and > > > mutilation as routine punishment, the death penalty, assassination, > > > massacres, conflict resolve through killing, all of which still take > > > place in our time. Pinker also references Biblical examples of > > > genocide and stoning deaths for any number of infractions, also > > > attributing the same and similar torturous behaviors to historical > > > accounts of Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and Chinese, etc. > > > Pointing to a "change is sensibility" Pinker writes: "Violence has > > > been in decline over long stretches of history, and today we are > > > probably living in the most peaceful moment of our species' time on > > > earth." > > > > Somehow I can't seem to dance to the tune. > > > > Please take the time to view this lecture, only 19 minutes and respond > > > as to........... > > > > Truth or Wishful Thinking? > > > > State your Stance! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
