"... One of the problems is  conditions allowing the emotional rule
over the rational." - bruce r.

Yes and another of the problems is the assumption that one's
'rational' aspect can rule over the emotional.

On Mar 13, 7:27 am, bruce ralph <[email protected]> wrote:
> Animals do have a basic "fight or flight" response. When it goes into
> overdrive, it does result in sociopathic behaviour. We have to
> reexamine the the societal conditions that result in people "going
> off" like this. One of the problems is  conditions allowing the
> emotional rule over the rational.
>
> On Mar 13, 7:20 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sigmund might say it's all to do with his relationship(or lack
> > thereof) with his Mom.  Kids at that age are dealing with raging
> > hormones and other chemical changes that some find impossible to
> > handle.  It is unfortunate in the extreme that his therapy didn't pan
> > out.  Chances are if he could have toughed it out for a few more
> > months his body and mind would have recovered.  I can't imagine how
> > guilty his parents must feel.  It's a horrible thing.  And so, so sad.
> >  Tragic applies.
>
> > dj
>
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:34 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Just to get the facts straight, Vam, it has since emerged that the
> > > report that Tim K. had stated his intention to "whip up a storm" in a
> > > chat room (Krautchan, a German clone of 4Chan) was incorrect. The
> > > police had received reports of the entry in the chat room forum, which
> > > later turned out to be false. But Rech, the interior minister, in a
> > > move sadly typical for a politician, had already taken the photo-
> > > oppportunity to go public with the news.
>
> > > Far from being on Ritalin (a popular, if often questionable treatment
> > > for kids who are hyper and diagnosed as suffering from Attention-
> > > Deficit-Syndrome), as Don suggests, Tim K. is universally described as
> > > being quiet and somewhat withdrawn. Not, by any means, an over-
> > > achiever, but also not a kid who fully fits into the omega-type,
> > > weird, nerd-loser category in teenage group classification. He had
> > > recently begun therapeutic treatment for depression but had
> > > discontinued it.
>
> > > Part of the psychosis which drove K. to his killing spree may have had
> > > something to do with gender issues, Slip. The vast majority of his
> > > victims in the school were female, according to the reports, and most
> > > were killed with aimed, intentional head shots (this kid was a trained
> > > shooter). This, however, would seem to argue, in my view, for
> > > traditional gender differentiation - speculatively, a generalised
> > > aggression against females because particular girls had rejected his
> > > advances. If he had been the subject of peer-group bullying/mobbing,
> > > one would have expected more alpha-jock types amongst the victims.
> > > While it might be interesting to discuss gender-related issues here,
> > > Slip, my experience is that no group is more conservative and
> > > traditional with regard to gender-differentiation than teenagers.
>
> > > Francis
>
> > > On 13 Mrz., 04:54, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> There is something material to this discussion :  The ' boy ' had
> > >> indicated his mind, in his own words, day before committing the
> > >> mayhem. Let's hear.
>
> > >> "I have weapons here and tomorrow morning I will go to my old school
> > >> and really whip up a storm," Tim Kretschmer, 17, said in a chat room,
> > >> according to the interior minister of the state where Wednesday's
> > >> massacre took place.
>
> > >> "I have had enough of this crummy life... Always the same. People are
> > >> laughing at me, no-one recognises my potential... You will hear about
> > >> me tomorrow. Make note of the name of the place: Winnenden," the
> > >> posting said.
>
> > >> "He should have just killed himself," pensioner Hildegard Kronbach
> > >> said as she stood on the church steps.
>
> > >> His father is a successful businessman who employs 150 people at a
> > >> packaging firm, according to police, but his son found it difficult to
> > >> fit in at school and had few friends.
>
> > >> "He was simply not accepted by anyone and just sat all day in front of
> > >> his computer," Mario, a schoolmate, told German television station
> > >> N24.
>
> > >> Reports also said he was keen on computer shooting games -- especially
> > >> the violent "Counter-Strike" -- and had become a real-life crack shot
> > >> at the shooting range where his father was a member.
>
> > >> After leaving school last year, Kretschmer had enrolled on a course to
> > >> train as a salesman. He regularly worked out at the gym, belonged to a
> > >> sports club and was a keen table tennis player.
>
> > >> His father owned more than a dozen guns, all locked away except the
> > >> nine millimetre Beretta pistol that caused the carnage. Police also
> > >> found 4,600 rounds of ammunition at the house.
>
> > >> Rech said Kretschmer had apparently cracked an eight-digit code to a
> > >> locked cabinet containing guns and ammunition.
>
> > >> The killer had "destroyed the soul of an entire school and ripped into
> > >> the heart of a town," Rech added.
>
> > >> The tragedy brought back haunting memories of a similar bloodbath in
> > >> Erfurt in eastern Germany in 2002 that left 17 dead, including the
> > >> gunman, and rekindled a gun-control debate.
>
> > >> Gun laws were tightened after Erfurt and there have already been calls
> > >> for even stricter laws and also a ban on violent computer games.
>
> > >> The above were excerpts from The Guardian. The fact that the boy was
> > >> filled with the sense of " unrecognised potential," despite having all
> > >> ( compared to a teen in an average household in India ) materially, is
> > >> what is most germane to the case.
>
> > >> On Mar 13, 3:42 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> > The past few days have seen two frightening series of rampage
> > >> > killings, in Alabama and in Southern 
> > >> > Germany:http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,612863,00.html
> > >> > Living in Germany, and having a 17-year-old daughter going to school
> > >> > here, I've been hearing and reading quite a bit about our local horror
> > >> > in the past few days. It seems to have been a typical case of a boy/
> > >> > young man with major mental/self-image problems irrevocably losing it.
>
> > >> > The talking heads are waffling about the availability of weapons (Tim
> > >> > K. used a Beretta his father kept in his bedroom), graphic computer
> > >> > games (Counterstrike) and all the other usual stuff. Despite my oft-
> > >> > posted abhorrence for privately-held guns, I don't really think that
> > >> > further gun control is the answer (not to this particular problem -
> > >> > rampage killings take place in societies with tight and with lax gun-
> > >> > control - the killers seem to be able to get the guns anyway). I also
> > >> > don't believe that 99.99% of kids are significantly brutalised by
> > >> > graphic games - otherwise no street in the world would be safe to
> > >> > walk, given the fact that almost all 18-year old males in the
> > >> > developed world have,or have had significant exposure to such games.
>
> > >> > I don't know if there is any real answer to such events. Growing up
> > >> > has always has its problems and it certainly isn't easy for kids
> > >> > today, in our high-octane, high-pressure, consuming/consumptive
> > >> > performance- and success-driven society. One interesting comment I've
> > >> > heard claimed that girls tend to internalise aggression (with results
> > >> > such as the repeated cutting of arms) while guys are more likely to
> > >> > channel that argression outwards. That said, it was the amok killings
> > >> > of Brenda Ann Spencer in 1979, which inspired Bob Geldof to write, "I
> > >> > Don't Like Mondays", which maybe gives the best explanation for why
> > >> > such things happening - the best because it just expresses rather than
> > >> > explains the unexplainable:
> > >> > "The silicon chip inside her head
> > >> > gets switched to overload ... "
>
> > >> > Francis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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