Michael - the short sword increased murders. It takes a bit more time to train people to use knives and cheese-wire to kill - most find guns easier. Most of us don't want to kill and have to be trained in it. Cultures are vastly different, but generally it is poor men who kill and get killed, usually young. Europe has been a very violent place through history. Britain is much less violent in terms of murders than the USA, yet I generally feel safer in the States (I don't work in or visit your hot murder spots), perhaps because your cops are much more impressive than ours and more visibly present (you have a lot more of them per capita too).
On 14 Mar, 16:50, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote: > One fact that's always interesting in these contexts is the two tribes > studied by sociologists. I'm not going to look them up now, but I > believe one was called the Yamamoto. Anyway, one tribe had a rate of > violence of essentially nil, and the other had an extraordinarily high > murder rate - probably something like 5% of all adult males were > murdered. It was a pride-driven culture, where males asserted > masculinity in the face of (real or perceived) insults to themselves > or their loved ones by killing the offender. > > Because of sexual selection, male competition is well-entrenched. But > as the sociological tribal studies illustrate, the expression of that > competition is not pre-ordained. Sometimes there are a lot of > murders / duels / the like going on, and sometimes not. So there is > some truth to the notion that social structures can decrease violence. > But I think it is not a fair assumption that certain bugaboos of > current society are to blame. After all, the Yamamoto didn't have > cable tv, violent video games, and the internet, and they were way > more violent than is modern Western society. > > Does anyone know the stats on how much more violent Europe and the US > are, today, as compared to say the 1800's? I'm not sure it would be > very different - but you'd have to figure out good ways of accounting > for whether wars count, accounting for population, for population, > density, etc. > > One factor that I think could reasonably be expected to have made a > real difference is the invention of guns. It used to be that in order > to kill someone, you had to do it in a really hands-on way. And only > a sociopath could, say, gut someone to death, or kick and punch > someone to death, without an extraordinarily compelling reason (e.g., > finding them in flagrante delicto). But guns depersonalize violence. I > would have no problem firing a gun at someone, if I had a reason - > like, if they were robbing me on a train and I felt in danger - while > I think I would have a real problem stabbing them. It's too... icky. > Too evil and sadistic. > > On Mar 14, 8:10 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There have long been killing sprees like this - Foucault brought the > > case of one to light in a paper, suggesting we listen to the account > > directly rather than through 'psychologists'. I doubt people like > > this can be stopped through better understanding. Perhaps we should > > declare free range on gun collectors and then arrest the survivors? > > Craig will undoubtedly support this position! I think some people > > might kill in order to ensure a therapist for life. > > > On 14 Mar, 11:41, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > We can't assume that social conditions had any influence on little > > > Tim. He's described as a reclusive with some obsessive patterns. > > > Would he had spent more time in social settings and extra curricular > > > activities, there might have been a more positive outcome. I've seen > > > how wealth can sometimes turn children into a type of family bi > > > product with the idea that money can provide all the nurturing > > > necessary for healthy development. Tim was cold and calculated in his > > > intent lacking both emotional and rational aspects, probably a > > > mentally wired zombie. It is really too bad he wasn't still alive, as > > > the results of his psychoanalysis could provide a multitude of > > > information that might prevent future breakdowns. > > > > On Mar 13, 11:38 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "... One of the problems is conditions allowing the emotional rule > > > > over the rational." - bruce r. > > > > > Yes and another of the problems is the assumption that one's > > > > 'rational' aspect can rule over the emotional. > > > > > On Mar 13, 7:27 am, bruce ralph <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Animals do have a basic "fight or flight" response. When it goes into > > > > > overdrive, it does result in sociopathic behaviour. We have to > > > > > reexamine the the societal conditions that result in people "going > > > > > off" like this. One of the problems is conditions allowing the > > > > > emotional rule over the rational. > > > > > > On Mar 13, 7:20 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Sigmund might say it's all to do with his relationship(or lack > > > > > > thereof) with his Mom. Kids at that age are dealing with raging > > > > > > hormones and other chemical changes that some find impossible to > > > > > > handle. It is unfortunate in the extreme that his therapy didn't > > > > > > pan > > > > > > out. Chances are if he could have toughed it out for a few more > > > > > > months his body and mind would have recovered. I can't imagine how > > > > > > guilty his parents must feel. It's a horrible thing. And so, so > > > > > > sad. > > > > > > Tragic applies. > > > > > > > dj > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:34 AM, frantheman > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Just to get the facts straight, Vam, it has since emerged that the > > > > > > > report that Tim K. had stated his intention to "whip up a storm" > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > chat room (Krautchan, a German clone of 4Chan) was incorrect. The > > > > > > > police had received reports of the entry in the chat room forum, > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > later turned out to be false. But Rech, the interior minister, in > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > move sadly typical for a politician, had already taken the photo- > > > > > > > oppportunity to go public with the news. > > > > > > > > Far from being on Ritalin (a popular, if often questionable > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > for kids who are hyper and diagnosed as suffering from Attention- > > > > > > > Deficit-Syndrome), as Don suggests, Tim K. is universally > > > > > > > described as > > > > > > > being quiet and somewhat withdrawn. Not, by any means, an over- > > > > > > > achiever, but also not a kid who fully fits into the omega-type, > > > > > > > weird, nerd-loser category in teenage group classification. He had > > > > > > > recently begun therapeutic treatment for depression but had > > > > > > > discontinued it. > > > > > > > > Part of the psychosis which drove K. to his killing spree may > > > > > > > have had > > > > > > > something to do with gender issues, Slip. The vast majority of his > > > > > > > victims in the school were female, according to the reports, and > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > were killed with aimed, intentional head shots (this kid was a > > > > > > > trained > > > > > > > shooter). This, however, would seem to argue, in my view, for > > > > > > > traditional gender differentiation - speculatively, a generalised > > > > > > > aggression against females because particular girls had rejected > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > advances. If he had been the subject of peer-group > > > > > > > bullying/mobbing, > > > > > > > one would have expected more alpha-jock types amongst the victims. > > > > > > > While it might be interesting to discuss gender-related issues > > > > > > > here, > > > > > > > Slip, my experience is that no group is more conservative and > > > > > > > traditional with regard to gender-differentiation than teenagers. > > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > > On 13 Mrz., 04:54, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> There is something material to this discussion : The ' boy ' had > > > > > > >> indicated his mind, in his own words, day before committing the > > > > > > >> mayhem. Let's hear. > > > > > > > >> "I have weapons here and tomorrow morning I will go to my old > > > > > > >> school > > > > > > >> and really whip up a storm," Tim Kretschmer, 17, said in a chat > > > > > > >> room, > > > > > > >> according to the interior minister of the state where Wednesday's > > > > > > >> massacre took place. > > > > > > > >> "I have had enough of this crummy life... Always the same. > > > > > > >> People are > > > > > > >> laughing at me, no-one recognises my potential... You will hear > > > > > > >> about > > > > > > >> me tomorrow. Make note of the name of the place: Winnenden," the > > > > > > >> posting said. > > > > > > > >> "He should have just killed himself," pensioner Hildegard > > > > > > >> Kronbach > > > > > > >> said as she stood on the church steps. > > > > > > > >> His father is a successful businessman who employs 150 people at > > > > > > >> a > > > > > > >> packaging firm, according to police, but his son found it > > > > > > >> difficult to > > > > > > >> fit in at school and had few friends. > > > > > > > >> "He was simply not accepted by anyone and just sat all day in > > > > > > >> front of > > > > > > >> his computer," Mario, a schoolmate, told German television > > > > > > >> station > > > > > > >> N24. > > > > > > > >> Reports also said he was keen on computer shooting games -- > > > > > > >> especially > > > > > > >> the violent "Counter-Strike" -- and had become a real-life crack > > > > > > >> shot > > > > > > >> at the shooting range where his father was a member. > > > > > > > >> After leaving school last year, Kretschmer had enrolled on a > > > > > > >> course to > > > > > > >> train as a salesman. He regularly worked out at the gym, > > > > > > >> belonged to a > > > > > > >> sports club and was a keen table tennis player. > > > > > > > >> His father owned more than a dozen guns, all locked away except > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >> nine millimetre Beretta pistol that caused the carnage. Police > > > > > > >> also > > > > > > >> found 4,600 rounds of ammunition at the house. > > > > > > > >> Rech said Kretschmer had apparently cracked an eight-digit code > > > > > > >> to a > > > > > > >> locked cabinet containing guns and ammunition. > > > > > > > >> The killer had "destroyed the soul of an entire school and > > > > > > >> ripped into > > > > > > >> the heart of a town," Rech added. > > > > > > > >> The tragedy brought back haunting memories of a similar > > > > > > >> bloodbath in > > > > > > >> Erfurt in eastern Germany in 2002 that left 17 dead, including > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >> gunman, and rekindled a gun-control debate. > > > > > > > >> Gun laws were tightened after Erfurt and there have already been > > > > > > >> calls > > > > > > >> for even stricter laws and also a ban on violent computer games. > > > > > > > >> The above were excerpts from The Guardian. The fact that the boy > > > > > > >> was > > > > > > >> filled with the sense of " unrecognised > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
