Good, one, Don. Here's one from the Bard:
To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heartache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to,-'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub: For in that sleep of death what dreams may come, When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action. Hamlet, 3. 1 On Mar 22, 4:48 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Nothing fascinates me or frightens me more then death. The one truly > inevitable mystery we all face. > > "Now, this bell tolling softly for another, says to me: Thou must die." > > The bell doth toll for him that thinks it doth; and though it intermit > again, yet from that minute that this occasion wrought upon him, he is > united to God. > Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off > his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to > any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from > that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world? No > man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the > continent, a part of the main. > If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if > a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine > own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in > mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it > tolls for thee. > > -John Donne > > dj > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Do not go gentle into that good night, > > Old age should burn and rave at close of day; > > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > > Though wise men at their end know dark is right, > > Because their words had forked no lightning they > > Do not go gentle into that good night. > > > Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright > > Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, > > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > > Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, > > And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, > > Do not go gentle into that good night. > > > Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight > > Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, > > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > > And you, my father, there on the sad height, > > Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray. > > Do not go gentle into that good night. > > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > > On Mar 22, 1:23 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Don't let him fool you, Molly. He's a right mean spirited old bastard. ;) > > >> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > > >> > In addition, Neil, I certainly did not mean to diminish your wonderful > >> > insight or generous nature. You do, as you say, encourage all of us > >> > in our conversations here. I do not mean to direct any of this > >> > personally. > > >> > On Mar 21, 9:14 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I'd rather hope you'd think it pretty obvious I spend a lot of time > >> >> encouraging Molly. And that part of that involves needing to imagine > >> >> a lot of deficiencies and how they arise. There is the question of > >> >> denial and I'm sure one needs imagination to find out how to invite > >> >> the 'right' material in. I do think Derrida got something very > >> >> positive out of a recognition of what you are saying (and often say). > >> >> One 'report' after another in the UK is showing that responsibility > >> >> has taken flight out of the window, much as in Priestley's 'An > >> >> Inspector Calls'. I doubt any set of finite fetish has anything > >> >> infinite. The imagination has to probe beyond fetish, perhaps even to > >> >> the extent of descent into the inferno in order to find the better > >> >> life (a story often told and misunderstood). We may want intelligence > >> >> and beauty to succeed as perhaps matter has succeeded against anti- > >> >> matter, but in this sense I believe that origins are complex and that > >> >> we act between polarities. I don't believe imagination is wasted in > >> >> seeking to understand a continuum and how we may balance positions in > >> >> that. When I find people simply lying about what is positive against > >> >> all the evidence I am not inclined to dismiss that. > > >> >> On 21 Mar, 17:49, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > Seems to me a waste of imagination to imagine "human being may lack > >> >> > the capacity to see > >> >> > human beings as human beings." But certainly, if you do, that is what > >> >> > you will get. > > >> >> > Imagining that human beings are capable of intelligence and beauty > >> >> > might get us further. > > >> >> > At some point, while immersed in the finite and infinite, we have to > >> >> > imagine the life we desire for ourselves. If we spend our time > >> >> > realising ignorance, trash chimping censorship or politesse, or even > >> >> > dwelling in that reality that screams these aspects at us, we should > >> >> > ask ourselves, why am I here? Do I enjoy feeling the victim of it > >> >> > all? Do I feel alive when I can say - that is rotten, I am not that. > >> >> > More alive than when I say, "I can see that these folks have more in > >> >> > them, the possibility of moving into something more intelligent and > >> >> > beautiful. And, I can see myself surrounded by intelligent, beautiful > >> >> > aspects of life. Sometimes, we deny that intelligence and beauty are > >> >> > a part of our life because it pains us to feel the lack of it. And > >> >> > that pain makes us feel alive, so we cling to it. But beauty and > >> >> > intelligence is all around us, just as the rest of the spectrum of > >> >> > life is there. Recognizing our choice and responsibility are the > >> >> > first steps to inviting in that possibility into our own lives. When > >> >> > we invite in possibility, we create our opportunity to move from the > >> >> > finite to the infinite. From the limited to the unlimited. I do > >> >> > agree, Neil, that imagination is key. > > >> >> > On Mar 21, 6:26 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > Chimpout says it all Don. I reckon the bald guy in front of the > >> >> > > bench > >> >> > > sat with a black woman is trying out his arm on her. We are so > >> >> > > secretive I can't imagine a set of councillors letting cameras in > >> >> > > for > >> >> > > fear of us finding out what they do. > > >> >> > > It's struck me since I can remember thinking much that infinity is > >> >> > > connected with imagination and we have trouble keeping the > >> >> > > imagination > >> >> > > alive in discussions. > > >> >> > > "If it makes sense to speak of human beings as human beings, then it > >> >> > > makes sense to imagine that a human being may lack the capacity to > >> >> > > see > >> >> > > human beings as human beings. It would make sense to ask whether > >> >> > > someone may be soul-blind." - this from Stanley Cavell (somewhere). > >> >> > > I > >> >> > > can just about remember being taught stuff like Johari's Window and > >> >> > > receiving it rather badly because I thought people just did > >> >> > > reflection, before realising there was a whole lot more ignorance > >> >> > > about than a little grammar school boy knew - an infinity of it on > >> >> > > might say. We often sweep away stuff under the carpet of not being > >> >> > > bothered to have to put up with trash chimping as in Don's U-Tube > >> >> > > find, but this leads to censorship through politesse as we treat > >> >> > > people with critical views that need to be heard to the general in- > >> >> > > group, soul-less chimping humans do to try and avoid embarrassment. > > >> >> > > On 21 Mar, 04:18, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > > Could be worse. I used to be amused at the antics of British > >> >> > > > parliament. What with all the muttering and such. I shouldn't > >> >> > > > have > >> >> > > > been so smug. Here's a link to a real, live American city council > >> >> > > > meeting. How utterly embarrassing. > > >> >> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqOSNI7l0bQ > > >> >> > > > Our tax dollars at work. How do these people ever stay elected? > >> >> > > > I > >> >> > > > just don't get it. > > >> >> > > > dj > > >> >> > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:37 PM, archytas > >> >> > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > Sue and I can rarely bear the language of most of what intrudes > >> >> > > > > into > >> >> > > > > our lives - it seems like irritating distraction that is aimed > >> >> > > > > at > >> >> > > > > preventing us communicating. I went to an anticrime meeting on > >> >> > > > > Thursday that was a total disaster in this respect. The > >> >> > > > > outright > >> >> > > > > lying and presence of a claque as the police and council people > >> >> > > > > who > >> >> > > > > are failing us so badly made themselves out to be doing a good > >> >> > > > > job. > >> >> > > > > There was no capacity for personal review. I had to leave. > > >> >> > > > > On 20 Mar, 20:06, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > >> >> > > > > wrote: > >> >> > > > >> Lovely and inscrutable post ...as always Neil! :-) > > >> >> > > > >> I’m not so sure it is lack of interest as much as lack of > >> >> > > > >> visible > >> >> > > > >> availability. Perhaps the charlatans don’t help much either. > > >> >> > > > >> As to being able to ‘check’….as is the case for all scientific > >> >> > > > >> exploration, a personal review I find to be the best…how else > >> >> > > > >> would I > >> >> > > > >> actually know? …faith?... on some of those wondrous published > >> >> > > > >> papers > >> >> > > > >> we talk about often here? > > >> >> > > > >> The truth is that much is currently made explicit….again, > >> >> > > > >> mostly lack > >> >> > > > >> of distribution and acceptance in this current rather barbaric > >> >> > > > >> and > >> >> > > > >> confused culture. > > >> >> > > > >> On Mar 20, 10:43 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> > There are phenomenological practices about Orn - I guess > >> >> > > > >> > part of the > >> >> > > > >> > lack of interest is to do with people lying about what they > >> >> > > > >> > find and > >> >> > > > >> > there being no way to check. I sense that much that we do > >> >> > > > >> > is done in > >> >> > > > >> > pretence of secrecy and we'd be better > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
