I don't know how I missed this post Pat, but I did not see it until now. My Father Bill was William O'Brien, not Halloran, but we are talking about the same event. St. Michael was mentioned, and Father Bill and I often spoke in length of his role in creation. At the time, I considered myself an agnostic, but having had a very Catholic upbringing, I found that I could keep up and challenge Father Bill enough to keep him engaged in conversations (35 years ago). I wish I had read Steiner then (also fascinated with St. Michael.) The differences that I had with Father Bill are many of the differences that I have with the Catholic teaching today - that they teach God to be something external to self. Because I myself have encountered "ghost" phenomena, seen objects moving around a room on their own - seen the apparition with my eyes, felt that deathly cold - it is not a big leap to think about exorcism. The Exorcists that I have known are extraordinary men, every one. God love them for choosing such a role. Yet I still believe that at the deepest level, we all play all roles - so they are me!
On Mar 23, 8:43 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 22 Mar, 15:33, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I knew a priest who claimed to be on a train, going to the exorcism > > that William Blatty's book was based on. As Father Bill tells the > > story (and I had several discussions with him), there were suitcases > > and other things flying on their own across the train at this priest > > before he ever got to the exorcism. Father Bill was a cool guy, a > > family man, a very well known and respected priest in the Chicago > > Archdioceses. I have known (and currently know one) Catholic Priests > > who were exorcists throughout my life. It is kept quite hush hush by > > the church but the men I know are bright and strong and very well put > > together. I guess you would have to be. I think it is true. But > > then again, I think it is all true - and perfect for the level of > > consciousness in operation. In the big picture, there is only > > Brahman. In microcosm, anything is possible. > > I suppose you're talking about the exorcism at Alexian Bros. Hospital > (and a residence in Bel-Nor) in St. Louis (my home town) in 1949. > Father William Halloran (Jesuit) was the chief exorcist. Was THAT > your Father Bill? The possessed was a young (at the time) black boy > from near Washington D.C. Whilst I COULD give the name of the > possessed, I know the man would prefer to not have it pasted about, so > I'll keep it. They say it was St. Michael himself who, near the end > of the exorcism, entered the boy and cast out the demon (named BY St. > Michael as 'SATAN' himself) from within. Officially, then, St. Louis > was the last known whereabouts of Satan himself. And there are forces > IN the St. Louis community who are counting on there being enough of a > lingering presence to be able to use. Again, if I mention names > publicly, I'd only draw attention to myself, but, rest assured, there > are plans and not very nice ones. > > PS all the furniture from the room at the Alexian Bros. Hospital > where the exorcism took place is in a sealed room in Scott Air Force > Base. Why? For future use, of course. > > > On Mar 22, 7:54 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I like William Peter Blatty's The Exorcist. Unlike the movie, the > > > book never commits to supernatural forces. The telekinesis part of > > > the story is a little freaky but a smart girl could have figured out > > > how to fool a terrified mom. It's more about a priest's doubt and a > > > neuritic mom then anything else. And fear of the unknown, of course. > > > All in all, a quick, interesting read. > > > > dj > > > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Lack of exhibition does not substantiate the claim. Evil does not > > > > imply that a newborn should immediately do a 360 headspin, hiss and > > > > spit blood out at you. This in no way indicates that evil does not > > > > exist within a person or that it may manifest at a later date and > > > > time, especially if there is intent, such as may be the case with > > > > little Tim Kretschmer and Thomas Sullivan Jr (link). > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/11/nyregion/boy-kills-mother-and-himse... > > > > There are numerous other examples of course and whether or not they > > > > are attributed to evil is speculation without any means of > > > > establishing factual evidence. > > > > The argument of evil, or the evil argument, remains problematic in > > > > that we can only deduce from a set premise only to reach a fallible > > > > conclusion. We cannot prove or disprove the existence of evil but > > > > only present assertions laden with ambiguity and perplexities and > > > > there are no uniform opinions on the matter other than those of > > > > segmented groups within society that deem evil existence as a > > > > necessity to their function. Maybe we can simply eradicate evil > > > > entirely by ruling out its existence through euphemistic tactic and > > > > rid ourselves of it for good and the world can live in peace, and find > > > > closure, of course. lol :-) > > > > > On Mar 21, 7:04 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Because they exhibit zero evidence of such. They exhibit only evidence > > > >> that they are hungry, tired, or uncomfortable, and when the > > > >> appropriate stimulus is applied, they become peaceful. Have you ever > > > >> seen behaviour from an infant that you consider to be truly mean > > > >> spirited that could not be more accurately attributed to another more > > > >> common infantile behaviour? > > > > >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > Infants aren't mean spirited.<<<CJ > > > > >> > How do you know this? > > > > >> > On Mar 21, 10:34 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> >> "Mean Spirited" typically goes hand in hand with either "spoiled", > > > >> >> "neglected", or "abused". > > > > >> >> Infants aren't mean spirited. > > > > >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> > She boiled her baby because a series of > > > >> >> > childhood traumas and negative adult life events led her to a > > > >> >> > crystal > > > >> >> > meth addiction which so impaired her judgement that she quite > > > >> >> > literally lost her mind. Neither of these hypothetical examples > > > >> >> > is in > > > >> >> > any way supportive of the concept of innate evil. <<<CJ > > > > >> >> > Actually she was a mean spirited little girl whose parents sent > > > >> >> > her > > > >> >> > off to live in a convent under the loving care of nuns who > > > >> >> > nurtured > > > >> >> > her into a tender loving woman, so kind and sweet she was, until > > > >> >> > that > > > >> >> > day came, the day that no one understands, the day that she > > > >> >> > killed her > > > >> >> > husband and boiled her baby.................but the scientific > > > >> >> > community said it was just postpartum disorder, a simple hormonal > > > >> >> > mood > > > >> >> > swing, not to worry. > > > > >> >> > On Mar 20, 11:39 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > >> >> > wrote: > > > >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > How can something be both innate, and learned?<<CJ > > > > >> >> >> > I see a problem here on the interpretive level. > > > > >> >> >> > I said clearly......... "As much as we can accept the > > > >> >> >> > (possibility) > > > >> >> >> > that good and > > > >> >> >> > evil are innate qualities embedded in the psyche , we (can't > > > >> >> >> > rule out) > > > >> >> >> > that "forces/energies" beyond our physical space can have or > > > >> >> >> > attempt > > > >> >> >> > influence upon our action. > > > > >> >> >> > The content is clearly not a statement of absolutes. What is > > > >> >> >> > unrecognized are the variable aspects of innateness, ie; the > > > >> >> >> > degree of > > > >> >> >> > the good/evil personae. Take for example a crime witness > > > >> >> >> > quote "I new > > > >> >> >> > he was bad but I didn't think he was capable of such a heinous > > > >> >> >> > act". > > > >> >> >> > OR "I know she was a bad mother but don't understand what > > > >> >> >> > possessed > > > >> >> >> > her to boil her baby". > > > > >> >> >> ...and I opened with a reference to Russell's Teapot. "Not > > > >> >> >> ruling out" > > > >> >> >> leaves a wide swath for speculation. I recognized that you > > > >> >> >> specifically weren't making an absolute statement. I'm referring > > > >> >> >> to > > > >> >> >> the concepts of good and evil, which are themselves statements of > > > >> >> >> absolute judgment. The crime witness statements you are talking > > > >> >> >> about > > > >> >> >> are not some recognition of any real quality, but an example of > > > >> >> >> cognitive bias on the part of the witness. > > > > >> >> >> > So there is a "degree" of innate good/evil but in reiteration, > > > >> >> >> > we > > > >> >> >> > can't rule out the forces/energies can have or attempt > > > >> >> >> > influence on a > > > >> >> >> > person. > > > > >> >> >> You've moved now into a QED follow up without ever having > > > >> >> >> supported > > > >> >> >> your initial statement. I see nowhere where you have > > > >> >> >> demonstrated from > > > >> >> >> the hypothetical witness statements how that supports an idea of > > > >> >> >> an > > > >> >> >> innate good or evil. > > > > >> >> >> He was capable of such a heinous act because he was a > > > >> >> >> progressively > > > >> >> >> degenerative schizophrenic. She boiled her baby because a series > > > >> >> >> of > > > >> >> >> childhood traumas and negative adult life events led her to a > > > >> >> >> crystal > > > >> >> >> meth addiction which so impaired her judgement that she quite > > > >> >> >> literally lost her mind. Neither of these hypothetical examples > > > >> >> >> is in > > > >> >> >> any way supportive of the concept of innate evil. > > > > >> >> >> Also as had been discussed early in the thread, the > > > > >> >> >> > interpretation of good/evil is in how it is defined. So what > > > >> >> >> > I'm > > > >> >> >> > trying to get at here is that a person can have qualities that > > > >> >> >> > are > > > >> >> >> > innate and yet be influenced by said other. Might hatred be > > > >> >> >> > innate > > > >> >> >> > but not murder? > > > > >> >> >> innate > > > >> >> >> Adjective > > > >> >> >> existing from birth, rather than acquired; inborn > > > > >> >> >> Where would hatred be stored in an infant? Have you seen some > > > >> >> >> research > > > >> >> >> somewhere that suggests a "Hatred Gene"? > > > > >> >> >> > You state factually "We are taught what good and evil are, not > > > >> >> >> > born > > > >> >> >> > with it." <<CJ > > > > >> >> >> > That is a matter of opinion, one that I disagree with. > > > > >> >> >> Actually, no. That is a matter of the preponderance of scientific > > > >> >> >> thought in the psychological, sociological, and anthropological > > > >> >> >> fields > > > >> >> >> based on clinical and field study. You are free to disagree with > > > >> >> >> the > > > >> >> >> conclusions drawn, but understand that the reason I state it > > > >> >> >> factually > > > >> >> >> is because it is accepted as fact. > > > > >> >> >> I look at > > > > >> >> >> > people like Dahmer who, during early childhood without parental > > > >> >> >> > knowledge, already exhibited patterns of morbid interests, > > > >> >> >> > defined by > > > >> >> >> > society as evil. You think he was "taught" this but > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
