Infinite gratitude, Vam, for the delightful opportunity
On Apr 29, 12:19 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
> Neil, I now appreciate the " enlightenment " remarks. It points to the
> same " corruption " we increasingly see everywhere. But, the " baby "
> is / might be still there in the bathwater !
>
> " Saying " is a very sacred phenomenon : it enables individuals to
> touch each other, empower or motivate each other, change each other,
> transform each other ...
>
> In that domain, there are vast spaces for the " unsaid," the " less
> said," the " firmly said," the " clearly said," the " unclearly
> said," ... ... and the attendent emotions and thoughts, tasks and
> responsibilities, each such saying leaves upon and for us in their
> wake.
>
> You are sharing with us the emotions and thoughts such " saying " and
> " unsaying " has left or continues to leave upon you !
>
> Why or what makes the " unsaid " more difficult to confront ?
>
> I can sense that the answer is somehow connected with : " I suspect
> the fact is that we are all more inter - connected than we know
> already, yet still talk and act as though we are not." Do you ? And,
> if yes, would you be able to describe / map the linkage ?
>
> This is a delightful opportunity for a huge advance in the quality of
> communication we've been having amongst each other. LOL.
>
> On Apr 29, 4:01 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Some way from what I really mean, I remember many sporting incidents
> > in which no one dared admit the team was crap (against such evidence
> > as being competition rubbing rags for 7 years). In rugby, I drifted
> > from the first division to second with my best mate (who was
> > international class), booze moving from after match pain relief to
> > Saturday morning pain precaution. We never spoke about it, but both
> > gave up on the same soggy day of defeat in the mud at Rochdale. The
> > wider unsaid is much more difficult to confront.
>
> > On 28 Apr, 15:24, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I really can't say or shouldn't say, or maybe I'm just afraid to say.
> > > But let's say we just say and in that way we play with what is
> > > sometimes kept at bay, even if it stirs a fray. At least in the end,
> > > come what may, it could pay to say we had a great day. Nay?
>
> > > Oy veh!
>
> > > On Apr 28, 9:01 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I suspect the fact is that we are all more inter-
> > > > connected than we know already, yet still talk and act as though we
> > > > are not.
>
> > > > It seems to be that knowing both to be true is key
>
> > > > What we need to
> > > > engage with is kept silent and we may need laughter to reveal it
> > > > because we are traumatised to silence through the politesse and
> > > > etiquette of old arguments that serve to miss the point.
>
> > > > I find this enormously insightful. I am not sure how to get at the
> > > > kept silent. Kept silent as unseen, unknown - or something seen and
> > > > known but feared into silence? Each would have a very different
> > > > viewpoint.
>
> > > > On Apr 28, 9:24 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I didn't mean enlightenment per se Vam. Use of this term varies
> > > > > greatly, as I'm sure we know. It's the business of attracting
> > > > > individuals to enlightenment by those claiming to have achieved it and
> > > > > who claim to recognise the talent or readiness in others to enter an
> > > > > enlightened state as some kind of privilege that is the old, failed
> > > > > fiction. I suspect much of this is connected to Plato's 3-part soul.
> > > > > I haven't time to continue just now and can only say what an
> > > > > enlightened world it would be if we were able to celebrate and
> > > > > commiserate over an England or India victory in Peshawar - perhaps
> > > > > with our grandchildren playing with local children in nearby gardens.
> > > > > Cricket would, of course, be an irrelevance to whatever else had
> > > > > happened to allow this. I can strategise what I mean rather than just
> > > > > whine as a martyr. I suspect the fact is that we are all more inter-
> > > > > connected than we know already, yet still talk and act as though we
> > > > > are not. Globbalisation (no typo) is a case in point. I have a
> > > > > feeling that wider attempts to describe life as lived (eg AutoGruff)
> > > > > could help us work out the actual ground.
>
> > > > > On 28 Apr, 10:15, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > This is a refreshing voice I hear from you, Neil ! Would like to
> > > > > > hear
> > > > > > of more depths neath what you are saying. LOL.
>
> > > > > > For one, what did you mean when you used the word " enlightenment ?"
> > > > > > Why is it an " old, failed fiction ?"
>
> > > > > > On Apr 28, 10:37 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > [from C.S. Lewis 'The Screwtape Letters' - 1942]
> > > > > > > It sounds as if you supposed that argument was the way to keep
> > > > > > > him out
> > > > > > > of the Enemy's clutches. That might have been so had he lived a
> > > > > > > few
> > > > > > > centuries earlier. At that time humans still knew pretty well
> > > > > > > when a
> > > > > > > thing was proved and when it was not; and if it was proved they
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > believed it. They still connected thinking with doing and were
> > > > > > > prepared to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of
> > > > > > > reasoning. But what with the weekly press and other such weapons
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > have largely altered that. Your man has been accustomed, ever
> > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > inside his head. He doesn't think of doctrines as primarily
> > > > > > > "true" or
> > > > > > > "false", but as "academic" or "practical", "outworn" or
> > > > > > > "contemporary". "conventional" or "ruthless" ... Make him think
> > > > > > > it is
> > > > > > > strong, or stark, or courageous - that is the philosophy of the
> > > > > > > future.
>
> > > > > > > Lewis, of course, is taking the urine. The Enemy is The Church
> > > > > > > and he
> > > > > > > is writing in irony (we perhaps know him better as the author of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > Biblical saga 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe'). Molly's
> > > > > > > World
> > > > > > > would be very welcome, yet even in there we would have to be
> > > > > > > cautioned
> > > > > > > against manipulation like the above and lingering Genghis Khans.
> > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > tolerance can turn into a dreadful weapon in human affairs.
> > > > > > > Deconstruction, in part, teaches a key caution on the "objective-
> > > > > > > bureaucratic voice" many confuse with dispassionate argument. It
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > wary of engagement in any rush to knowledge, but has broadly
> > > > > > > failed to
> > > > > > > spot its own rules of engagement - perhaps most farcically in its
> > > > > > > plaudits to authors announcing the death of the author.
>
> > > > > > > Words are little in comparison with a desire to shake my friend
> > > > > > > Vam's
> > > > > > > hand over a matter of simply decent engagement which would remain
> > > > > > > silent in the embrace. It would be good if India or England had
> > > > > > > had a
> > > > > > > close fought victory in cricket and both of us experienced the
> > > > > > > meaningless history in buying a drink for the "loser". It might
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > better still if the match was played in a Pakistan free of strife
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > a world free of poverty - a poverty properly defined to
> > > > > > > understand the
> > > > > > > poverty of Western "riches" as much as that of an Indian
> > > > > > > population
> > > > > > > hoping politicians will put enough food on their tables and a roof
> > > > > > > against what the sky brings. We need new arguments and action
> > > > > > > engaged
> > > > > > > with them. The lack of this Slip, is my disappointment with an
> > > > > > > academe that hacks out old nonsense, forever re-packaged - we
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > be laughing at it but also reconstructing the chain of reason in
> > > > > > > knowledge of its modern failures. In this sense, there is no
> > > > > > > need to
> > > > > > > be ready for enlightenment as an individual, yet need to recognise
> > > > > > > this is an old, failed fiction with much in common with dreadful
> > > > > > > cosmetic adverts urging 'because you're worth it'. What we need
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > engage with is kept silent and we may need laughter to reveal it
> > > > > > > because we are traumatised to silence through the politesse and
> > > > > > > etiquette of old arguments that serve to miss the point.
>
> > > > > > > On 27 Apr, 19:24, Tinker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > God you Turn me On!
>
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > peace & Love
>
> > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 11:18 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Very good Molly, it is a recognition of the spark of life that
> > > > > > > > > energizes the heartbeat, gives breath to the soul and allows
> > > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > free mind.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 6:48 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > I think a person who voices this phrase is either in love
> > > > > > > > > > with his
> > > > > > > > > > golden shadow, found his godhood, or in a sleazy bar with
> > > > > > > > > > his mind so
> > > > > > > > > > blurred by mind altering substances that they haven't a
> > > > > > > > > > clue as to
> > > > > > > > > > what is really attractive. Knowing you, Slip, you have
> > > > > > > > > > just come from
> > > > > > > > > > a campfire where you were contemplating the finer things in
> > > > > > > > > > life, so I
> > > > > > > > > > guess, one of the first two would apply.
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Apr 26, 7:15 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Molly, what do you think of the expression, "God you Turn
> > > > > > > > > > > me On".
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 26, 3:38 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > practically
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 26, 4:00 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I find arch to be creative with a humorous flair, a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sort of toying
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with ideas, another dimension of linguistics, a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > provocation of mind
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
