Maybe the prejudice crack was out of line. There was not any Jesus Christ, I believe there was a man named Jesus (or whatever was the equivalent name of the place and time)
peace & Line On May 2, 7:48 pm, Tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > Orn, I think there's way too much that is grown, for there to not have > been a substantial seed. > Your religious prejudice is showing :-) > > peace & Love > > On May 2, 6:02 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > “…Ultimately, it's probably futile to try to "strip away > > the myth from the man ..."” – fran > > > Quite true fran…this can hold true for you, me Moly, Neil etc. too. > > My personal belief is there was no such man and the majority of what > > we have today is but myth, fomented by everything from politics to > > hope. I know that I believe that Socrates lived even though there is > > nothing extant from him either. > > Some of my earliest inquiry here started with the DSS and included the > > likes of Josephus. I still remember reading him in the 1950s and > > thinking: “How the heck can anyone claim there was a man JC???” > > > Oh, well…this is but one view and almost all of the time such debates > > (yes/no) are not very satisfying…at least not to me in this area. > > > I do know that the vast majority of what is presented as teachings and/ > > or theology about Christianity is founded on nothing more than the > > desert the few nomads who started this tradition roamed on for years, > > apparently! Well, enough iconoclasm. > > > At the risk of appearing hypocritical, and way too tenacious, here is > > the link again that includes a fairly erudite discussion on Buddhism > > and Christianity. Oh, and a few studies on consciousness, shamatha > > etc.http://www.sbinstitute.com/ > > > On May 2, 1:31 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > With regard to Christian scripture, the hermeneutical problems are > > > immense. Given, on the one side, the weight of two thousand years of > > > the development of Christian tradition(s) and history - which is, in > > > certain periods, almost synonymous with western history, and the > > > personal societal inculturation of those of us who come from a > > > backround within this wider Christian tradition; and, on the other > > > hand, the layers of oral transmission, theological systemic > > > development, influence of and contamination by similar and related > > > traditions in the Jewish (Palestinian and Diaspora) world of the 1st. > > > Century C.E., cross-pollenisation with other religious, spiritual and > > > philosophical ideas in a fertile, eclectic, intellectual environment > > > (particularly forms of neo-Platonism), discussion and conflict between > > > different Christian communities, the trauma of the siege of Jerusalem > > > and destruction of the temple in 70 C.E., etc., it is very difficult > > > to speak with any kind of surety about the original teachings of > > > Jesus. > > > > Personally, I am sceptical of any claims to tear away all the veils of > > > interpretation at both ends which separate us from the "historical" > > > Jesus. Even during his life, there seems to have been disputes about > > > what he had actually said, or stood for. In the end, we are faced with > > > a charismatic figure as the nucleus of manifold, multiplying > > > mythologies. Ultimately, it's probably futile to try to "strip away > > > the myth from the man ..."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPDXmEsQtQ > > > > Francis > > > > On 2 Mai, 21:11, Tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yea man! > > > > That one statement is pretty much the foundation of the Christian lie. > > > > All the times Jesus said he was a common man and that it was the > > > > persons own faith that healed them is ignored. > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > On May 2, 10:44 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I think that passage is a perfect example of the problems of a human > > > > > translated "holy" text. > > > > > > Heres's the KJV: > > > > > > "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man shall come to the > > > > > father but BY me." > > > > > > Not through, by. That one word is an important distinction, because > > > > > it introduces variance in understanding, and shows the problems of > > > > > which I speak. Change the phrase slightly, and the message falls in > > > > > line with all the rest of what Christ taught: > > > > > > "I show you the way, the truth, the life; no man shall come unto the > > > > > father unless they follow my example." > > > > > > Now given Christ's refusal to be deified, his perpetual redirection > > > > > of prayer and worship to Yahweh, and his oft vocalized mission to > > > > > teach ("I come to show you the way..."), which interpretation makes > > > > > more sense? > > > > > > Christians espouse the viewpoint that Christianity is exactly that, > > > > > attempting to lead a Christ like life, but the deification of Christ > > > > > has become so entrenched that the two are indistinguishable. > > > > > > Thou shalt have no other Gods before me... > > > > > > [ Attached Message ]From:e_space <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds > > > > > Eye\"" <[email protected]>Date:Sat, 2 May 2009 05:35:15 > > > > > -0700 (PDT)Local:Sat, May 2 2009 8:35 amSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: The > > > > > Wrong Way > > > > > > it is not unfortunate at all...it doesnt matter to me what jesus > > > > > said...i dont consider jesus to be god...he said some neat stuff...so > > > > > did other people...but i would NEVER say to someone, 'noone shall come > > > > > to the father but through me'... i find that sorta arrogant, even if > > > > > it was true. > > > > > > i do not associate religion with 'god', i associate it with man where > > > > > it belongs. as far as 'the spirituality of fundamental christianity' > > > > > is concerned, i am not even closely convinced that such an animal > > > > > exists...when u listen to a fundamentalist the last thing that comes > > > > > to mind is spirituality. > > > > > > if my words are capable of turning some off religion then their belief > > > > > isnt very strong...on the other hand, since my negative slant on > > > > > religion is accompanied by my joy of spiritual awareness, i really > > > > > dont think i will be doing that much damage...maybe some good huh? > > > > > > On May 2, 7:52 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I don't envy your up bringing and unfortunately what you > > > > > > experienced is > > > > > > from the lack of knowledge of what Jesus taught and the problem > > > > > > that is > > > > > > inherit to the trinitarian belief system where they make Jesus a > > > > > > God. > > > > > > > I have to laugh E when you say your father never sinned, because > > > > > > in his > > > > > > eyes he probably never did disobey the rules and regulations. But > > > > > > there in > > > > > > lies the problem as I see it "sin" within christianity is what > > > > > > separates us > > > > > > from God .. but now i want you to think about something. It would > > > > > > be a very > > > > > > serious "sin" if your actions or teachings separate someone from > > > > > > God.. very > > > > > > serious indeed . > > > > > > > If I had to survive on the spirituality of fundamentalist > > > > > > christianity I > > > > > > would have either died or wandered away long ago. In one of my > > > > > > experiences > > > > > > years ago it was said "If you think you know it all there is more." > > > > > > That > > > > > > has proven to be very true for me. > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 10:45 AM, e_space <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > i was born the son of a very strict preacher man. my whole life > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > spent in church, even home life resembled church with daily bible > > > > > > > reading, prayers, etc. i actually called my father 'god on earth' > > > > > > > because i never saw him do anything that even closely resembled a > > > > > > > sin, > > > > > > > other than the harsh treatment we got for doing something wrong, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > that was the english way, spare the rod, spoil the child. > > > > > > > > i saw a lot of hypocritical activity in the church and found no > > > > > > > comfort in the words of the bible. i rebelled. what i learned was > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > the 'path' to spiritual experience leads within. everything of any > > > > > > > importance on the spiritual side happened for me just before sleep > > > > > > > with eyes closed. of course, it takes a desire for this > > > > > > > communication > > > > > > > and i was constantly putting out the welcome mat for this > > > > > > > activity. > > > > > > > > people can look for the 'truth', answers to their religious or > > > > > > > spiritual questions, etc by reading or listening to the words of > > > > > > > others, where they will find nothing of substance from what i have > > > > > > > experienced. i think we all have a spirit, its just a matter of > > > > > > > digging the diamond out of the rough and starting to polish > > > > > > > it...just > > > > > > > my opinion here... > > > > > > > > On May 2, 5:04 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well Saul of tarsus (Paul is not an apostle as in the original > > > > > > > > sense as > > > > > > > > having been with Jesus and knew him before his death. If Saul > > > > > > > > is an > > > > > > > apostle > > > > > > > > then so am I by the same right and I can assure you that I am > > > > > > > > not an > > > > > > > > apostle. You are right unfortunately the teachings of > > > > > > > > christianity are > > > > > > > > heavily based on the writings of Saul. > > > > > > > > > It is sad the distortion of what Jesus had to say, but at least > > > > > > > > some of > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > has been recorded. Even if it is not accurate and distorted by > > > > > > > > time and > > > > > > > > transulation there comes many ideas that can be put to > > > > > > > > practical use in > > > > > > > > developing some kind of spiritual life. > > > > > > > > > My own view of Jesus (which is evolving) is that he is the > > > > > > > > Abbot of his > > > > > > > > teachings and a small group of followers. widely spread out and > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > unknown to other followers. It is meditation and thought about > > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > read that become the guiding principles. > > > > > > > > > It has not been an easy life, but it is one that I am very > > > > > > > > proud of. > > > > > > > Often > > > > > > > > times I come up against teachings of the past that are > > > > > > > > difficult to > > > > > > > > understand, yet though I feel that they must be discarded It > > > > > > > > can not > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
