Hi Chris, No i am not a sufi. But you are right, true sufi ism does not include mask of any sort. It is in fact a process of getting away from archetypes and identifying ones true self :) I am just a PhD student though :( and yet you are right, probably wisdom itself is a type of mask.. But i am wondering how can we reach towards an absolute definition of a mask, since something very real for me might be a portrayal/mask for you!
Regards, Sajida Naz On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>wrote: > Naz! Are you Sufi? I'm thinking that there are a great many masks to be > worn in that philosophy...some for wisdom, some for fun! > > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:51 PM, sajida naz <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Molly this is nice, and this approach leads us to what sufi-ism or >> spirituality is all about. So this also infers that we are our projection >> not us! >> This is strange to feel in the first place and to peel off the masks we >> are wearing sure can lead us to our true pure self. >> Regards, >> >> Sajida Naz >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> good questions, Rosey, and the reason I included Websters unabridged >>> definition of sincerity. The Zen tradition tells us we only have one >>> original face, the face we had before our parents were born, our >>> immortal face. To them, all other faces are masks. I tend toward a >>> less elemental view. I think that at any given time, we have a core >>> identity that includes our honest, wholehearted, real, true, unfeigned >>> self and if we are not wearing a mask to ease the abrasion of social >>> interaction, we are revealing our true self. I also think that those >>> masks become so comfortable, that we can see them as our true self, >>> repressing the parts of us disguised so that we don't feel the rub of >>> our activity with the larger world. The trick, I think, is to peel >>> all of those away and find a way to move through the world without the >>> need of a mask. This introspection can be filled with layers and >>> painfully intense, but can also be the exhilarating joy of self >>> discovery. >>> >>> On May 12, 2:11 pm, Rosey <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Molly when you refer to the mask are you basing it simply on one's >>> > interaction with others? This facade that we adorn ourselves with has >>> > developed into an entity of its own. It's a compilation of socially >>> > developed morals and acceptances that we have evolved into. At home >>> > one tends to shed his mask but ever so slightly if he isn't alone. >>> > What I mean by this is, the shedding happens in intervals. Some are >>> > able to completely remove the mask as they feel comfortable enough >>> > within themselves and others to do so. One such extreme archetype >>> > could be masturbation (we are grown up here), some uncommonly do it in >>> > front of others, while others will never reveal committing to such an >>> > act, yet they succumb to it. However the mask can be quite >>> > complicated. An example as such would be, adult film industry. They >>> > say women engaged in such activities are being themselves, open with >>> > sexuality, callous to what society considers moral. Yet these women >>> > tend to wear the largest masks. As pretending to enjoy what they are >>> > doing for monetary gain is the mask itself. Sexual implication was >>> > not my intention (sigh...rolling my eyes), but it plays a key role. >>> > >>> > What really defines a person that is not wearing a mask? Are there >>> > people that truly do not display such a falsehood? >>> > >>> > On May 12, 10:43 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > The Zen tradition would take us back to the concept of our original >>> > > face: What is your original face before any ideas, images, feelings >>> > > that you have been carrying like so much baggage? When investigating >>> > > "What is your original face before parents were even born?" we are >>> > > thrown back on our most primal, original self. Seeing this face in >>> > > others is rare, knowing it in myself is easier. >>> > >>> > > Are any other faces sincere? Well, we can let webster define that >>> > > (below) and it seems that if a face is presented as an honest >>> > > expression of self, then yes: >>> > >>> > > 1 : marked by genuineness: as a : free of dissimulation : not >>> > > hypocritical : REAL, TRUE, HONEST <the missionaries were prompted by >>> a >>> > > sincere desire for good -- Herman Melville> <was above all sincere >>> and >>> > > detested any form of pretense or affectation -- Terry de Valera> b >>> > > (1) : free from adulteration : not mixed <to find and isolate Nazism >>> > > in its pure sincere form proved extremely difficult -- J.C.Harsch> >>> > > (2) : not containing any foreign element : PURE <wood is cheap and >>> > > wine sincere outside the city gate -- Robert Browning> c : marked by >>> > > truth : GENUINE <the only sincere glimpse that we get of the living >>> > > breathing word-compelling Dante -- J.R.Lowell> d : motivated by a >>> > > desire for meaningful expression <the emotional substratum which we >>> > > feel to be inseparable from a truly great and sincere work of musical >>> > > art -- Edward Sapir> >>> > > 2 archaic : DEVOID <air sincere of ceremonious haze -- J.R.Lowell> >>> > > 3 : characterized by firm belief in the validity of one's own >>> opinions >>> > > <an entirely sincere and cruel tyrant> >>> > > synonyms WHOLEHEARTED, WHOLE-SOULED, HEARTFELT, HEARTY, UNFEIGNED: >>> > > sincere suggests absence of hypocrisy, dissimulation, falsification, >>> > > feigning, or embellishment and consequent honest genuineness <too >>> > > sincere for dissimulation -- Ellen Glasgow> <individuals are >>> > > considered sincere when there is little or no discrepancy between the >>> > > goals they seek and those they claim to be seeking -- L.W.Doob> >>> > > WHOLEHEARTED and WHOLE-SOULED stress lack of reservation or misgiving >>> > > and may suggest devotion, zeal, and sincerity <writes himself down a >>> > > frank and wholehearted Tory -- V.L.Parrington> <who could help liking >>> > > her? her generous nature, her gift for appreciation, her >>> wholehearted, >>> > > fervid enthusiasm -- L.P.Smith> <men whose dedication to their >>> country >>> > > was whole-souled, nevertheless, and for whom the supreme frustration >>> > > of personal ambition never deflected them away from public services >>> of >>> > > a monumental nature -- Eric Sevareid> HEARTFELT suggests a genuine >>> > > stirring of innermost feelings and usually contrasts with formal, >>> > > conventional, outwardly indicated, more or less factitious >>> > > manifestation <our sympathy for you therefore is heartfelt, for we >>> are >>> > > sharing the same sufferings -- Sir Winston Churchill> <if ever men >>> > > have offered heartfelt thanks to God for deliverance from the perils >>> > > of the sea, surely we were those men -- C.B.Nordhoff & J.N.Hall> >>> > > HEARTY may suggest vigorous manifestations like notable warmth and >>> > > robust exuberance <infuriated elderly traveling salesmen were >>> > > backslapped all day long by hearty and powerful unknown persons -- >>> > > Sinclair Lewis> <a courtier's laugh, decorous, brief and not too >>> > > hearty -- J.H.Wheelwright> UNFEIGNED may stress spontaneity and >>> > > absence of simulation <I confess to unfeigned delight in the >>> insurgent >>> > > propaganda -- J.L.Lowes> >>> > >>> > > On May 12, 10:29 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > I have to say, I think the use of 'mask' is at the root of that >>> discomfort, because of the assumption of a false face. I wonder if 'faces' >>> might be more accurate. As Lee noted, we have different faces for work and >>> home...additionally, we have different fraces for friend, lover, >>> parent...are any of them less than sincere? >>> > >>> > > > [ Attached Message ]From:Molly Brogan >>> > > > <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds >>> Eye\"" <[email protected]>Date:Tue, 12 May 2009 07:10:31 -0700 >>> (PDT)Local:Tues, May 12 2009 10:10 amSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: The Finite >>> Mask that Covers the Infinite >>> > >>> > > > Thanks, sajida, what do you think about masks? My thoughts until >>> now >>> > > > have been about how we use masks as self expression, either forming >>> > > > personas with ego, or expressing what is repressed by stepping >>> outside >>> > > > our comfort zone with the aid of a (like rebel) persona. But gabby >>> > > > brings up a new perspective. When others judge there to be a mask, >>> > > > does it mean there is one? Communication is a two way street, and >>> > > > understanding isn't always achieved. Can folks seem to be masked >>> > > > because understanding isn't reached in the communication? >>> > >>> > > > On May 12, 8:01 am, sajida naz <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > Thanks Chris, Allan and in fact all of you. There is a very nice >>> and >>> > > > > informative discussion going on in the group. >>> > >>> > > > > Regards, >>> > >>> > > > > Naz >>> > >>> > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 6:59 PM, iam deheretic < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > > > Welcome Naz >>> > >>> > > > > > I will wear a mask when I want to. It does have a whole lot to >>> do with >>> > > > > > spiritualiy and who we we are, simply because your spirituality >>> whether you >>> > > > > > are an athiest or of some other beliefs it still defines who >>> you are and >>> > > > > > yes masks are disguises. There have been times I use a mask to >>> protect >>> > > > > > another and that mask is used in kindness. >>> > >>> > > > > > Again welcome to the mad house known as Minds-Eye >>> > > > > > Allan >>> > >>> > > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:40 PM, sajida naz < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > >> Hello, Am new here, but would like a say something to this >>> discussion. >>> > >>> > > > > >> Mask is kind of disguise right, we are not what we pretend >>> to.....has it >>> > > > > >> sth to do with spirituality??? In my opinion, those who are >>> not aware of >>> > > > > >> their own existance and purpose, are wearing masks whether >>> intentionally or >>> > > > > >> unintentionally >>> > >>> > > > > >> Its just my opinion to your theme >>> > >>> > > > > >> -- >>> > > > > >> Naz >>> > > > > >> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Molly Brogan < >>> [email protected]>wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > >>> Joseph Campbell is probably our best known contemporary >>> expert on the >>> > > > > >>> subject of masks, and his work including his massive studies, >>> Masks of >>> > > > > >>> God and Masks of Eternity, offer his keen insight into our >>> own >>> > > > > >>> abilities to don a mask and uncover the masks we find. >>> > >>> > > > > >>> What is it about us that put on our masks? What about us >>> creates the >>> > > > > >>> need for one? When do we confuse our mask with who we really >>> are? >>> > > > > >>> When are masks useful and when do they become obstacles for >>> us? >>> > >>> > > > > >>> I’m not talking about the functional, physical mask such as >>> > > > > >>> theatrical, surgical, protect and disguise mask etc. I am >>> talking >>> > > > > >>> about the mask of persona, the way we pretend to be one way >>> and are >>> > > > > >>> really another. Politesse is a good example and can often be >>> a >>> > > > > >>> cultural custom. When our words and mannerisms are polite, >>> but our >>> > > > > >>> actions and innuendos aggressive, we are wearing a mask. >>> When we >>> > > > > >>> profess undying love as a means to an end, and walk away in >>> the >>> > > > > >>> morning light, we are wearing a mask. Sometimes, we lose >>> sight of our >>> > > > > >>> own masks and are confused about who we really are. Why? >>> > >>> > > > > >>> What do YOU think? >>> > >>> > > > > > -- >>> > > > > > ( >>> > > > > > ) >>> > > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - >>> > >>> > > - Show quoted text - >>> >>> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
