A lovely post- thank you. Furthered yesterday by a very long converstion with my daughter- who knows me so well. She thinks my problems were boundaries and delayed reactions- back to the hoop skirt image. It wasn't a glum conversation- lots of laughter and affirmations along with the serious stuff.// I had my first child at 20 and my last at 40 so I was too busy to reflect but it seems I am at the age where reflection is considered normal. And one may have to go through several revisions. Cuts. Perspectives.// I can close/sell the house and move across the globe in two directions or remain- I haven't decided. I am in flux. One day I am happy the tide washes in- the next, that it washes out.//Anyway, I am happy for your outcome. I guess might start by answering the phone, opening the front door and responding to invitations? lol
On May 12, 8:42 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > I must say I agree with your insights, here, rigsy. We are formed and > reformed as we go through life loving and those first years with are > family are very formative. Getting a perspective on them that allows > us to witness ourselves as if in a movie, objectively, can be key as > it allows us to let go of the emotion and see ourselves operate in the > scenes. From here, we can make our adjustment and fill in the empty > spaces. > > I also understand first hand the difference between lonely and alone. > Although single for nearly fifteen years, I was never lonely, and > preferred a solitary life that allowed me the freedom to make my own > choices and be myself always. Then I found someone who would allow > and support this all ways. We still shadow dance, as everyone does. > But I finally said yes because I believe he can move beyond it, and > has no attachment to some vision of who I should be. He can take the > point of the witness that transcends object and subject, and allow > love to be what it is. Very rare and well worth the yes. > > Like you, when I look back at past loves, I can smile at the journey > and enjoy the rich tapestry - can appreciate them, and am very glad to > be where I am now. > > On May 12, 6:03 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > We are somewhat stuck and molded, Molly, by our original family and > > often our adult choices are attempts to repair or fill in empty spaces > > even if it is destructive. There is a difference between being lonely > > and alone- a big difference. I smile now to think of remarks made > > while I was in two unhappy marriages and other sub-plots, based on > > their presumptions of what love looked like. > > > On May 11, 11:29 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > So, selfish love would be making people into (in your mind) what you > > > want them to be to satisfy your own needs. I suppose this would be > > > selfish, as it does not leave much about the other in the equation but > > > what you make of them. Of course, I have seen relationships like this > > > work, because there are those folks who would rather be used and > > > abused than lonely and don't think more of themselves to know or care > > > that there is more to love. > > > > On May 11, 8:10 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Selfish aspects are difficult to recognise Molly, yet perversely > > > > obvious much of the time. Clearly, many people show a professional > > > > persona to the world - whether lawyer, teacher or magical bulldunger - > > > > yet one can also present innocence in a skilled manner. Gabby, at > > > > least in my view, is often good at reminding us of this - perhaps > > > > jolting some sense into how selfish aspects may be hidden even in > > > > professions of concern. Gabby can get away with pretty much anything > > > > for me because I never feel there is an attempt to utter the last > > > > word. There is some selfish love here - I want her to be a real > > > > version of my held images - yet I want no one to conform to any > > > > dreamed-up stuff of mine, and yet again there is a clear non- > > > > conformity that conforms with my desire. If I make you into an Angel > > > > Molly, I would probably merely be confirming some desire for you to be > > > > everything I would hate if I could hate! Though an alternative would > > > > be to fall from grace together! "Silly boy", I hope you both might > > > > say, though even that might just be said in a tone I might desire. I > > > > guess, to a fair degree I can't hit at what I mean in that the real > > > > selfishness brings the paranoid-schizoid position with itself and > > > > exclusion zones that prevent love as a process that can wander its own > > > > course and touch us all. Attracted by an Angel one finds a Devil, > > > > projecting a Devil one finds and Angel in real deeds. Finding that a > > > > politician has charged us £340 for horse manure we might be upset at > > > > having to pay his expenses, until discovering he means to pour it over > > > > the other bastards! My guess is that there is very little positive > > > > affirmation of human motivation and that most people falsely believe > > > > they can tell what is honest from what is not - explaining why we are > > > > conned over and over again by dross. > > > > > On 11 May, 14:43, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > in a Tim Buckley frame of mind: > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34FFcI98_Qs > > > > > > On May 10, 9:47 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > An old friend of mine wanted something of a return to primitive 'New > > > > > > World' relations in her life. I sent her something on Kikuyu > > > > > > adolescent sex huts and some other anthropology - all readable as > > > > > > patronising male dross (the girls were not supposed to turn down any > > > > > > boy who asked etc.) - she sent me some William Goulding that might > > > > > > equate to Mills and Boon for the literate, perhaps a tale of love > > > > > > before the Fall. I do think we might find something worthwhile in > > > > > > loving another and finding the place of this in a wider form - the > > > > > > and > > > > > > seeming very important. One can give oneself and others a decent > > > > > > measure of unconditional, positive affirmation - this being a > > > > > > complex > > > > > > set against Molly's 'habits'. Love may be traumatic in the sense of > > > > > > only dawning on us after an event, only available in the differment > > > > > > of self. This differment seems to entail not thinking to badly of > > > > > > the > > > > > > other in disagreement, perhaps in viewing this in terms of necessary > > > > > > honesty and a need to consider personal change. Ad hominem rules > > > > > > can > > > > > > prevent this and a wider concept of more personal feedback is > > > > > > probably > > > > > > needed to stop us taking personal attack into polite agendas hidden > > > > > > by > > > > > > rhetoric and never say the very things that need to be said in order > > > > > > to understand them in differment. > > > > > > > On 11 May, 00:59, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > How ironic in a thread about the Nature of LOVE! > > > > > > > > On May 10, 6:19 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, Gabs, the rules have always been to attack the idea, > > > > > > > > and not the person. Simple enough for you to follow. > > > > > > > > > [ Attached Message ]From:gabbydott > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds Eye\"" > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>Date:Sun, 10 May 2009 14:31:50 > > > > > > > > -0700 (PDT)Local:Sun, May 10 2009 4:31 pmSubject:[Mind's Eye] > > > > > > > > Re: What is the nature of Love? > > > > > > > > > To get an answer instead of this evasive insult. You're not > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > dead yet, that's why I thought I might dare to ask you directly > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > you wrote what you wrote, with you being a professional writer I > > > > > > > > thought you might be able to access the self-reflective level I > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > addressing. Yes, Chris, I know, I should have read the posting > > > > > > > > guidelines more carefully which had better advised us to stick > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > quoting Plato always. > > > > > > > > > On 10 Mai, 20:44, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering out loud about Neil's idea of selfish love. > > > > > > > > > Wondering > > > > > > > > > out loud is part of what we do here. Why the abrasive tone, > > > > > > > > > Gabby? > > > > > > > > > > On May 10, 2:05 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And I think it is wonderful that people > > > > > > > > > > > > can find their comfort zone in life and be satisfied with > > > > > > > > > > > that. But I > > > > > > > > > > > wonder if it isn't part of what Neil refers to as selfish > > > > > > > > > > > forms of > > > > > > > > > > > love, aside from the more exploitative kinds. > > > > > > > > > > > Right, let’s talk about beginnings. Why would Molly, our > > > > > > > > > > mastress of > > > > > > > > > > embrace-the-paradox, end her concluding sentence with this > > > > > > > > > > schismatic > > > > > > > > > > “but”? To establish the paradox she makes out to make it > > > > > > > > > > embraceable? > > > > > > > > > > Well, why would Molly want to create some extra work when > > > > > > > > > > she sees > > > > > > > > > > that we don’t even handle our everyday work the way it is > > > > > > > > > > meant to? > > > > > > > > > > No, that’s not Molly style. Molly, let me ask you directly > > > > > > > > > > why you > > > > > > > > > > opened your last sentence the way you did. Would you care > > > > > > > > > > to explain, > > > > > > > > > > and I don’t mean justify. > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Mai, 16:55, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Which gives us a nice blending of threads on love here. > > > > > > > > > > > Is Eros > > > > > > > > > > > selfish, relating only to the pleasure that I am > > > > > > > > > > > receiving, and the > > > > > > > > > > > overall feeling of being loved that it may bring? Or can > > > > > > > > > > > it include a > > > > > > > > > > > real connection with the other, two moving as one, > > > > > > > > > > > without falling > > > > > > > > > > > into the domain of agape? > > > > > > > > > > > > I spent life as a single for fifteen years between > > > > > > > > > > > marriages because I > > > > > > > > > > > preferred expressing my love of life and others as a > > > > > > > > > > > single than > > > > > > > > > > > falling into a partnership where each expressed the other > > > > > > > > > > > as the > > > > > > > > > > > object of their love. For me, if love is limited to > > > > > > > > > > > this, it becomes > > > > > > > > > > > two people living side by side, expressing love as what > > > > > > > > > > > the other can > > > > > > > > > > > do for me, and what I can do for them, but not really > > > > > > > > > > > feeling the true > > > > > > > > > > > connection of two as one that I know is possible. As it > > > > > > > > > > > turns out, I > > > > > > > > > > > am glad that I held out for a love that is more in tune > > > > > > > > > > > with what I > > > > > > > > > > > know to be true, because it was totally worth the wait. > > > > > > > > > > > Not that it > > > > > > > > > > > isn't challenging, because all relationships are. And in > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > there were many interesting offers to combine my life > > > > > > > > > > > with another - > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
