You've helped me better understand the meaning of the word. I've often 'explained myself' and not intended to give an apology when in fact that was exactly what I was doing. In the few cases(yeah, I've been wrong before; hard to believe I know) when I'm in the wrong I never feel I deserve forgiveness so quite often I don't even ask for it. If I want to have any friends left when I'm old I'd probably better amend this practice, hmm?
I was always impressed with the Yakuza method of apology. The public removal of one's digits and presentation to the boss. The number of fingers and how close to the knuckles you cut is a representation of the depth of your guilt and the sincerity of your apology. God help you if your offering is insufficient. This I have always understood. A barbaric form of self-flagellation I believe. dj On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 5:06 PM, frantheman<[email protected]> wrote: > > There are a lot of issues - related and tangled - which are coming up > here. So thanks, Don, for a provoking theme. > > A big of semantic analysis leads to the Greek "apo" and "logos", or > "logia"; from/away from/off/seperate + word/speech. Its original sense > has more to do with explanation than saying sorry, as in the classic > "Apologia" - to speak in defence of (hence "apologetics"). Newman's > "Apologia pro vita sua" comes to mind in this context, in which he > explains his own spiritual journey to Roman Catholicism and defends > his views. In this sense, it does have some original legal meaning, > but not in terms of accepting legal responsibility for a failing, > quite the opposite, in fact. > > In German, apology is usually translated as "Entschuldigung" (also > used to translate "excuse") and has the literal meaning of "laying off/ > disposing of guilt ("Schuld"). In our common English use of the word, > the idea of some kind of admittance of guilt seems to be involved. > This, of course, as Don points out, brings us into the area of torts. > One result of this is that in areas of medical mistakes, doctors are > warned by their insurance companies never to apologise to patients who > suffer as a result of their actions, as this may be taken as an > admission of liability. > > In Japanese (and other eastern) cultures, the concept of an apology is > taken very seriously - it is something never done lightly, being a > major humiliation to personal honour - and is often accepted as > sufficient. This remains in some areas an issue between, for example, > Japan and Korea since WWII. > > In the Catholic sense (which Chris - for some reason ;-) appears to > expect from me), a true Act of Contrition implies "a firm purpose of > amendment", otherwise it is worthless. > > Guilt, forgiveness, amendment, punishment, penance, admission of one's > own imperfection - these are subjects which touch deep, powerful, > often dark areas in our individual and collective psyches. Themes > which were much more prevelant in earlier, more profoundly religious > eras than ours - for better or worse. I think that Neil's frequently > referred to image of the baby and the bathwater is often applicable. > > Francis > > On 27 Jun., 22:41, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: >> I would point the finger of blame at the Catholic Act of Contrition, but I >> think anything I could say, Fran will say better, so I'm going to make a >> fresh espresso instead. :-) >> >> >> >> [ Angehängte Nachricht ]Von:Don Johnson <[email protected]>In:"\"Minds Eye\"" >> <[email protected]>Datum:Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:08:16 -0700 >> (PDT)Lokal:Sa 27 Jun. 2009 22:08Betreff:[Mind's Eye] Apology Smology >> >> I never have understood the request for an apology. Is it the >> embarrassment this brings to the apologizer we are after or do we >> really expect to feel better ourselves? I feel it's more likely the >> person's ulterior motive is to gain tort advantage. Correct me if I'm >> wrong Gruff, but in legalize isn't an apology akin to an admission of >> guilt or at least responsibility for a wrongdoing? It's a good way to >> get sued. >> >> When someone I love or respect is angry with me it's usually due to a >> misunderstanding. Things get said or done by one or the other of us >> and regret can follow. I neither want nor expect an apology. You >> can't take "sorry" to the bank. What I try to do when I feel bad >> about how I've treated someone is DO something, not say something. >> Talk is cheap. I pay my debts in action, not words.(I'm running out >> of cliches) >> >> In researching this topic on the internet earlier I ran across Plato's >> Apology. Which of course is really no apology at all but more of an >> accusation. In retrospect, looking back on all the times I've given >> insincere apologies(these are legion and expected) I did the same >> thing. If not out loud then certainly in my head and with my >> expression. Deception has never been my strong suit. >> >> Does an apology mean anything to you and if so, why? Help me >> understand why this is so important to some people. >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
