Assuming that you don't really mean mind means consciousness that is not limited to the physical or chemical aspects of the human being but that you wanted to create a bridge to Francis' mind doesn't stop me from seeing that your hint at Francis that his model is lacking the communicational dimension is correct.
Francis, upgrade your IT model to an ICT model and your spherical headaches will fall into its proper place. On 29 Jun., 14:59, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > Bruce Lipton gives us a contemporary human model of communication > between atom, gene, cell, body, brain, mind and back again. The mind > meaning our consciousness that is not limited to the physical or > chemical aspects of our being. He contends that 95% of our mind > function and even behavior is originated in the subconscious or > unconscious, only 5% coming from a conscious thought. He seems to > include ego function in the 95% as it contains all of the pre- > programmed tracts that draw our reactive behavior. I think that these > percentages vary greatly between people and I wonder at the accuracy > of his averages. But I like the model, as it gives mind the final > contribution to any response, including back down to the cellular and > molecular level in our bodies. Communication between all levels and > coherence of the entire system are the keys to his model. > > I agree with you Francis, in that even with "mind" there is a > limitless dimensionality that his model does not give us. > > On Jun 29, 8:31 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thinking about your posts, jim, and many other posts here, it struck > > me how much the language and concepts dreiving from IT have effected > > the way we see all sorts of things in the "wider" world. Indeed, I see > > it in a lot of my own thinking and imagery too. We talk about > > "hardwiring", software, operating systems, etc, in ways which would > > have been incomprehensible to ourselves, say, forty years ago (apart > > from a tiny minority). But it's thirty years now since Bob Geldoff > > sang of "the silicon chip inside her head get[ting] switched to > > overload." > > > We should however be careful here. Just as an existential rational > > caution is called for with regard to our inherent tendency to > > anthropomorphise when thinking about the cosmos, so should we also be > > careful of computomorphising when reflecting on the way we humans > > work. Such thought models are just that - models. They help us > > understand particular processes better but are not comprehensive and > > can sometimes actually hinder us from seeing other aspects of the > > whole. > > > Unlike many others here, I tend strongly to an ultimately physical > > basis for consciousness and am extremely sceptical about terms such as > > collective consciousness, soul, spirit, etc. in this area. That said, > > I am also very much aware of how little we know about the nuts and > > bolts of how our consciousness actually works - even down to basic > > divisions between feeling/emotion and reason and their continually > > cascading interaction, not to mention the fundamentals of how our > > sense of continuous "self" "exists" and functions. I think we need to > > work with many different models (not always completely compatable with > > each other) while always remembering that they are models. > > > To move from an IT model to conclusions about consciousness existing > > apart from the brain (on other planes, or such ideas) seems to me to > > be a pretty large step. > > > Francis > > > On 27 Jun., 21:57, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Tinker - the views I expressed are more thoroughly developed in my > > > book "Leap of Reason." (See p. 122+) It's available through Amazon. > > > But to answer your question about how I can think the human brain can > > > only remember at best a few days' experiences, consider the facts. The > > > brain contains about 100 billion neurons, each with maybe an average > > > of 10 synapses linking it to other neurons. Assume that the entire > > > brain is solely devoted to memory. What does it have to store? Visual > > > info, auditory info, smells and tastes, physical feelings, emotional > > > feelings, location information, taught info. etc. > > > Assume our field of view is maybe 3.3K pixels by 3.3K pixels (for > > > a total of 10m pixels per field of view) with a visual B/W scale of 10 > > > (let's keep it simple) and a color scale of 10 for each pixel giving a > > > total visual field of info that must be stored of 1B. Next assume we > > > can perceive 10 fields per second (again, to keep it simple). So to > > > remember all this visual info for a 16 hour day (or about 60K fields > > > per day) we need enough storage to hold 60T bits, And this is just the > > > visual info we need to remember for one day. > > > How might that info be stored? Assume that each synapse has > > > "elements" capable of storing 10 bits of info, and that by some > > > encoding or info storage capability we can reduce the 60T visual bits > > > by 10, that means that we need the memory capacity to store 600B bits > > > of info. But our entire brain only has about 1T storage "elements" So > > > if the entire brain was devoted to memory, which it is not, and if all > > > it stored was visual info (which is not the case) at best it might be > > > able to store maybe 1.5 days worth of scenes. That's why I said that > > > the human brain can only store at best a few days' memories. Of course > > > we remember much more than that. Thus, I suggest that our memory is > > > stored, not in our brain, but as part of our consciousness, or > > > somewhere else (another plane?) accessible by our consciousness. What > > > do you think? Jim > > > > On Jun 26, 8:19 pm, Tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "It is that our physical brain does not have the > > > > > > capacity to store more than a few days' memories" - Jim > > > > > The physical brain is a complex computer that exceeds the capabilities > > > > of computer technology. How can you think it can only contain a few > > > > days of memory? > > > > That's a pretty weak foundation for your memory storage on another > > > > plane. > > > > Maybe you're confused with the collective intelligence which does > > > > store the cumulative knowledge of mankind. It is a real thing, the > > > > source of insight, inspiration and revelation. > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > On Jun 26, 1:16 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > rigsy - thanks for responding. My notion is not that we can't remember > > > > > more than a few days. It is that our physical brain does not have the > > > > > capacity to store more than a few days' memories. So they must be > > > > > stored elsewhere. Where might that be? I propose that it is part of a > > > > > consciousness that goes beyond this physical plane. That's why I > > > > > mentioned the out of body stories. Jim > > > > > > On Jun 20, 3:55 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I dispute your notion that we cannot remember beyond a few days- I > > > > > > have a fierce memory- though I may have to ask myself what was > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > of my entering a room, cabinet, etc. Our dead continue to exist- > > > > > > they > > > > > > are in our bones of memory, our appearance, habits, quirks. My > > > > > > daughter is just beginning to find this out and I am quite silent > > > > > > while I watch her journey- why ruin the surprise? > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 3:16 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > For some time, being retired, I have been thinking about > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > ultimate questions as: why are we here, what is life all about, > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > happens when we die, and do we continue to exist after we die. > > > > > > > Drawing > > > > > > > on a lifetime of reading and experience, I think I’ve arrived at > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > unusual answers. > > > > > > > To begin building a foundation for those answers, I first > > > > > > > wondered > > > > > > > about just who I am; what is it that is me? I don’t believe I’m > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > reflection I see in the mirror. No. If I lost an arm or leg, I > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > believe I would be 100% me. It seems that the real me, then, is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > consciousness that is within my body. Hmmm. How might I check > > > > > > > this? > > > > > > > How about my memory. During part of my working career I > > > > > > > was involved > > > > > > > with data storage and encoding, the object being to pack as much > > > > > > > information into as little storage as possible. If you think > > > > > > > about all > > > > > > > the things you remember – scenes, happenings, conversations, other > > > > > > > sounds, smells, numbers, taught information, etc. – and the > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > of the human brain, it is clear that the human brain can remember > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > most only a day or two of recent events. So where are the things I > > > > > > > remember stored? > > > > > > > I happen to have had a couple of out-of-body experiences. > > > > > > > I recall > > > > > > > being conscious of looking at my body lying on a bed, and of being > > > > > > > able to look around the room and out the window. Each time the > > > > > > > experience scared me, and I quickly returned to my body. But > > > > > > > while out- > > > > > > > of-body I now realize that I could recall everything I could > > > > > > > think of > > > > > > > while in my body; the me that was in my body was still the me > > > > > > > that was > > > > > > > out of my body. > > > > > > > Many books describe out-of-body experiences. The best, I > > > > > > > think, is > > > > > > > Thirty Years Among the Dead by Dr. Carl Wickland. In it, he > > > > > > > discusses > > > > > > > numerous examples of patients who had died yet whose spirit was > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > “here,” entwined with another body. In each case, the spirit of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > now dead person had what seems to be a perfectly normal memory of > > > > > > > their life, and exhibited the personality quirks they had while > > > > > > > alive. > > > > > > > So it seems that the human memory resides elsewhere that in the > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > body. > > > > > > > Fine, but still why am I here? Indeed, why is anybody or > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > here? Consider what “here” is. We know that this world, and > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > else in the universe, is matter disbursed in an almost infinite > > > > > > > amount > > > > > > > of space. But then we also know that E=mc². In words, this "here" > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > be reduced to the simple statement that all is > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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