What about sensual memory- our physical senses that have their own recall- immediate and seeming to bypass the brain? These can be postive or negative. While physical, they do seem outside the brain- although our reptile brain might be involved. I realize this is not within your question here and hope you will address it anyway.// Have also thought how the pattern of another's words or actions will trigger memory- postive or negative.//As for the mirror/ consciousness split I don't feel what I see is not the real me- in fact, sometimes I check to see that I'm still existing! :-)// What about premonition, intuition and dreams?
On Jul 3, 2:24 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > Fran - I can understand your reluctance to consider consciousness as > anything but a physical process. That is why, in my initial post, I > suggested that our memory resides somewhere other than in our heads, > that an out of body experience reveals that consciousness is what is > out of body - the physical me that I see in the mirror is not the real > me; the real me is my consciousness. There are many books that discuss > experiences with out of body consciousnesses. You've probably come > across some of them and found them to be not persuasive. So ask your > friends if they have ever had an out of body experience. I'll bet you > will find one or two that have, and can confirm that it was their > consciousness that wa out of body. Yes, that is a big step. But at > least try it. Once over it, I think many interesting things are > revealed, like what happens at death. Let me know if you try the > step. Jim > > On Jun 29, 5:31 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thinking about your posts, jim, and many other posts here, it struck > > me how much the language and concepts dreiving from IT have effected > > the way we see all sorts of things in the "wider" world. Indeed, I see > > it in a lot of my own thinking and imagery too. We talk about > > "hardwiring", software, operating systems, etc, in ways which would > > have been incomprehensible to ourselves, say, forty years ago (apart > > from a tiny minority). But it's thirty years now since Bob Geldoff > > sang of "the silicon chip inside her head get[ting] switched to > > overload." > > > We should however be careful here. Just as an existential rational > > caution is called for with regard to our inherent tendency to > > anthropomorphise when thinking about the cosmos, so should we also be > > careful of computomorphising when reflecting on the way we humans > > work. Such thought models are just that - models. They help us > > understand particular processes better but are not comprehensive and > > can sometimes actually hinder us from seeing other aspects of the > > whole. > > > Unlike many others here, I tend strongly to an ultimately physical > > basis for consciousness and am extremely sceptical about terms such as > > collective consciousness, soul, spirit, etc. in this area. That said, > > I am also very much aware of how little we know about the nuts and > > bolts of how our consciousness actually works - even down to basic > > divisions between feeling/emotion and reason and their continually > > cascading interaction, not to mention the fundamentals of how our > > sense of continuous "self" "exists" and functions. I think we need to > > work with many different models (not always completely compatable with > > each other) while always remembering that they are models. > > > To move from an IT model to conclusions about consciousness existing > > apart from the brain (on other planes, or such ideas) seems to me to > > be a pretty large step. > > > Francis > > > On 27 Jun., 21:57, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Tinker - the views I expressed are more thoroughly developed in my > > > book "Leap of Reason." (See p. 122+) It's available through Amazon. > > > But to answer your question about how I can think the human brain can > > > only remember at best a few days' experiences, consider the facts. The > > > brain contains about 100 billion neurons, each with maybe an average > > > of 10 synapses linking it to other neurons. Assume that the entire > > > brain is solely devoted to memory. What does it have to store? Visual > > > info, auditory info, smells and tastes, physical feelings, emotional > > > feelings, location information, taught info. etc. > > > Assume our field of view is maybe 3.3K pixels by 3.3K pixels (for > > > a total of 10m pixels per field of view) with a visual B/W scale of 10 > > > (let's keep it simple) and a color scale of 10 for each pixel giving a > > > total visual field of info that must be stored of 1B. Next assume we > > > can perceive 10 fields per second (again, to keep it simple). So to > > > remember all this visual info for a 16 hour day (or about 60K fields > > > per day) we need enough storage to hold 60T bits, And this is just the > > > visual info we need to remember for one day. > > > How might that info be stored? Assume that each synapse has > > > "elements" capable of storing 10 bits of info, and that by some > > > encoding or info storage capability we can reduce the 60T visual bits > > > by 10, that means that we need the memory capacity to store 600B bits > > > of info. But our entire brain only has about 1T storage "elements" So > > > if the entire brain was devoted to memory, which it is not, and if all > > > it stored was visual info (which is not the case) at best it might be > > > able to store maybe 1.5 days worth of scenes. That's why I said that > > > the human brain can only store at best a few days' memories. Of course > > > we remember much more than that. Thus, I suggest that our memory is > > > stored, not in our brain, but as part of our consciousness, or > > > somewhere else (another plane?) accessible by our consciousness. What > > > do you think? Jim > > > > On Jun 26, 8:19 pm, Tinker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "It is that our physical brain does not have the > > > > > > capacity to store more than a few days' memories" - Jim > > > > > The physical brain is a complex computer that exceeds the capabilities > > > > of computer technology. How can you think it can only contain a few > > > > days of memory? > > > > That's a pretty weak foundation for your memory storage on another > > > > plane. > > > > Maybe you're confused with the collective intelligence which does > > > > store the cumulative knowledge of mankind. It is a real thing, the > > > > source of insight, inspiration and revelation. > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > On Jun 26, 1:16 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > rigsy - thanks for responding. My notion is not that we can't remember > > > > > more than a few days. It is that our physical brain does not have the > > > > > capacity to store more than a few days' memories. So they must be > > > > > stored elsewhere. Where might that be? I propose that it is part of a > > > > > consciousness that goes beyond this physical plane. That's why I > > > > > mentioned the out of body stories. Jim > > > > > > On Jun 20, 3:55 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I dispute your notion that we cannot remember beyond a few days- I > > > > > > have a fierce memory- though I may have to ask myself what was > > > > > > purpose > > > > > > of my entering a room, cabinet, etc. Our dead continue to exist- > > > > > > they > > > > > > are in our bones of memory, our appearance, habits, quirks. My > > > > > > daughter is just beginning to find this out and I am quite silent > > > > > > while I watch her journey- why ruin the surprise? > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 3:16 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > For some time, being retired, I have been thinking about > > > > > > > such > > > > > > >ultimatequestionsas: why are we here, what is life all about, what > > > > > > > happens when we die, and do we continue to exist after we die. > > > > > > > Drawing > > > > > > > on a lifetime of reading and experience, I think I’ve arrived at > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > unusual answers. > > > > > > > To begin building a foundation for those answers, I first > > > > > > > wondered > > > > > > > about just who I am; what is it that is me? I don’t believe I’m > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > reflection I see in the mirror. No. If I lost an arm or leg, I > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > believe I would be 100% me. It seems that the real me, then, is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > consciousness that is within my body. Hmmm. How might I check > > > > > > > this? > > > > > > > How about my memory. During part of my working career I > > > > > > > was involved > > > > > > > with data storage and encoding, the object being to pack as much > > > > > > > information into as little storage as possible. If you think > > > > > > > about all > > > > > > > the things you remember – scenes, happenings, conversations, other > > > > > > > sounds, smells, numbers, taught information, etc. – and the > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > of the human brain, it is clear that the human brain can remember > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > most only a day or two of recent events. So where are the things I > > > > > > > remember stored? > > > > > > > I happen to have had a couple of out-of-body experiences. > > > > > > > I recall > > > > > > > being conscious of looking at my body lying on a bed, and of being > > > > > > > able to look around the room and out the window. Each time the > > > > > > > experience scared me, and I quickly returned to my body. But > > > > > > > while out- > > > > > > > of-body I now realize that I could recall everything I could > > > > > > > think of > > > > > > > while in my body; the me that was in my body was still the me > > > > > > > that was > > > > > > > out of my body. > > > > > > > Many books describe out-of-body experiences. The best, I > > > > > > > think, is > > > > > > > Thirty Years Among the Dead by Dr. Carl Wickland. In it, he > > > > > > > discusses > > > > > > > numerous examples of patients who had died yet whose spirit was > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > “here,” entwined with another body. In each case, the spirit of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > now dead person had what seems to be a perfectly normal memory of > > > > > > > their life, and exhibited the personality quirks they had while > > > > > > > alive. > > > > > > > So it seems that the human memory resides elsewhere that in the > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > body. > > > > > > > Fine, but still why am I here? Indeed, why is anybody or > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > here? Consider what “here” is. We know that this world, and > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > else in the universe, is matter disbursed in an almost infinite > > > > > > > amount > > > > > > > of space. But then we also know that E=mc². In words, this "here" > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > be reduced to the simple statement that all is energy, even > > > > > > > matter. So > > > > > > > “here” is a vast pool of energy, a pool that includes > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
