I don't know, I've heard that Fred Astaire himself - surely a true talent - was a huge fan of Michael Jackson's dancing.
MJ did much more than the moonwalk. You don't have to invent a dance move to be a great dancer, anymore than Dali had to invent a new color or brushstroke to be a great painter. It's about combining already invented techniques in novel, talented ways. On Jul 9, 1:51 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > Interesting > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Michael Berkovits > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > Most of this thread seems to be about MJ's music. What about his > > dance? Surely he was personally innovative and a great artist in that > > regard? > > I have never been a great fan of wacko jacko, as he was always on the > questionable side of the law or morality. well as far as his dance, > original no,, it appears that it is a standard mime move, if using what > others have created as yours, well I am not impressed. but mimes impress me > . personally innovative? what I see is promotion , promotion, promotion. I > see charlie pride and nat king cole as innovative and the list goes on,, but > wacko jacko naw all he was is promotion , promotion, promotion and the use > of bizarre activities for promotion. > > As for a great artist.. well if you admire con artist, who live off of > others great.. each to his own taste. but it has been said you can fool a > lot of the people all of the time and those people will supply you with a > damn good living. > > for me.. I won't be missing him any time soon.. > Allan > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 1:37 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Ok, I started this with my comment about Jacko while replying to Molly > > > on the "beauty" thread, so I suppose I'd better clarify my own > > > position. > > > > Jacko came to mind because the memorial thing was going on on TV in > > > the same room as I was writing. For the record, I don't agree with > > > most of the hype we've been innundated with since his death, and a lot > > > of what was said yesterday - Al Sharpton comes particularly to mind - > > > was way over the top. But, in that sense, his death and what has been > > > going on since then simply mirrors much of his life (... the man in > > > the mirror ...:-)). I zapped into CNN briefly before the memorial > > > service started and there were arial pictures of a dark limousine/ > > > hearse speeding along a Californian highway - I was immediately > > > reminded of similar pictures from a few years ago with Jackson being > > > driven to the courthouse to hear the verdict in his abuse case. > > > > I agree with Ian that there have been many other figures in rock and > > > pop in the past fifty years who have been more innovative and > > > artistically talented than Jacko. The example of Bowie is one I would > > > wholeheartedly endorse - I could add many others; from the Beatles, > > > through Pink Floyd, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, U2, Oasis, etc., etc. > > > I would also cheerfully argue that Quincy Jones was the greater genius > > > behind "Thriller" (the parts of which I liked most being Eddie van > > > Halen's guitar solo on "Beat It" and "Human Nature"). > > > > And yet, "Thriller" was one of those rock/pop events which achieve a > > > synergetic greatness every now and again, maybe by just being the > > > right artist/sound/album/whatever at the right time. Like Dylan, > > > perhaps, in the early sixties, or Sergeant Pepper, or Dark Side of the > > > Moon, or The Joshua Tree, or, even, Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me." > > > And Jackson - at his best (and with "Thriller" he WAS at his best) - > > > was an talented, extremely professional musician. > > > > As for the comparison with Caravaggio, I was referring to the fact > > > that, with time, the individual faults, idiosyncrasies, even life- > > > stories of artists fade away until only their work endures (or fails > > > to). Comparision of artistic genius usually is a pretty futile > > > occupation anyway. Personally I will never forget the day I wandered > > > into San Luigi dei Francese in Rome shortly after moving there in > > > 1984, knowing nothing of the place and being astounded by the three > > > monumental canvasses of Caravaggio on the theme of St. Matthew. I > > > somehow doubt that Jackson's music will have the same kind of effect > > > in 400 years time! > > > > Francis > > > > On 8 Jul., 18:11, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Creativity is a greatly misused term. Do we, as humans create life by > > > > the copulative act? Do we create a car out of nothing? Do we create > > > > the language we use? Do we create the specific vibratory scales used > > > > in music? Philosophically, and actually, in almost every instance, it > > > > is but a parody of previous works. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody#Music > > > > > This has always been recognized and for centuries composers would copy > > > > other people’s works with the recognition that such copying was not > > > > only acceptable, but that doing so was recognition of the greatness of > > > > that copied! > > > > The research of the true origin of different pieces of music is > > > > extensive and surprising if one takes the time to study it. From > > > > Bartok to Bach, what today would be litigated as copyright > > > > infringement, was used as common and accepted practice. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_B_Minor > > > > Having played much by both in orchestras and bands, I can claim some > > > > expertise in music. Also, having ‘created’ original music, I can only > > > > say that what was played stands on the shoulders of all that came > > > > before me. > > > > Further, when it comes to today’s music, we immediately move into a > > > > multimedia environment. This muddies the waters a bit in the expansion > > > > of elements used. > > > > > I started out as a big musical snob, rejecting rock & roll as being > > > > crass, shallow and of no value at all. Then framing the Beatles in a > > > > similar mold. I felt that only the classics were worthy. Then, little > > > > by little, I listened to and finally became a big fan of the former. > > > > My previous prejudice was based on a lifetime of playing and studying > > > > the classics along with a view from a position of entitlement and > > > > superiority. Silly, no? > > > > > Quickly returning to the topic of creativity, I enjoyed much of MJs > > > > works…when I first saw and heard ‘Remember the Time’, I was > > > > fascinated! The same for his black and white futuristic works with his > > > > sister. Without belaboring the point, all large productions today are > > > > a collaborative effort. So, the synthesis is the result of the work of > > > > many even though it centers often around an individual. About > > > > everything in life is this way. > > > > > As to the term ‘pop’, it is a shortened form of popular. As I have > > > > earlier admitted to here, it is all too easy to eschew such > > > > presentations. Judgments, opinions and personal ‘tastes’ are just that… > > > > and in the larger scope of things have little to no value at all. > > > > Shall we reject things because they are popular? ‘Tis a very very easy > > > > thing to do! > > > > > My final word is but yet another admonition about corporate media. I > > > > seriously doubt if the current topic about MJ would have arisen or at > > > > least reached the proportions and ‘seriousness’ it has without the > > > > financial interests of today’s mass media’s manufacturing of consent, > > > > consumerism and compliance. > > > > > On Jul 8, 7:48 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Exposing the substructure of a super star does not strip down the > > > > > talent rating to zero. Producers, writers, choreographers must have > > > > > "talent" to work with. Great movies are not great because of a > > > > > handful of actors but of course you have to have the right actors for > > > > > the presentation. There are billions of people in the annals of > > > > > artistic history and some stand out as "icons". I think what your > > > > > missing is that you just can't replace Micheal Jackson with someone > > > > > off the street and create the same iconic image. The idol shows of > > > > > late are proof of that. There has to be some talent there to work > > > > > with. It really doesn't matter who wrote the song, created the > > > > > costuming and choreographed the show, they didn't sing the song or > > > > > dance the dance. Some people think Ozzy Osborn is iconic, I think > > > > > he's a dirt bag. Despite all your picking apart Micheal Jackson Made > > > > > it happen. You can argue with millions of fans if you want and as I > > > > > said earlier, I have no personal interest nor own any MJ peripherals > > > > > but I do think he was a talented artist. My opinion of course! > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:13 am, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Actually... the Jackson 5 didn't write their own songs, but The > > Jacksons > > > > > > did. It may sound pedantic, but there are two very distinct eras to > > their > > > > > > music (the good and the bad, in my opinion). > > > > > > > As the Jackson 5, they made their name as a covers band, playing > > songs by > > > > > > Sly & The Family Stone, Smoky Robinson & The Miracles, etc. After > > they moved > > > > > > to the Motown label, their songs were written and produced by > > Gordy, > > > > > > Richards, Mizell, and Perren (aka The Corporation). This was the > > 'ABC' era > > > > > > Jackson 5. Later on Hal Davis took over as writer. During this time > > -- which > > > > > > was their peak in my opinion -- they didn't even play their own > > instruments. > > > > > > > After Motown dropped them, they did begin to write their own songs. > > However, > > > > > > they were now more famous as television stars; I think the quality > > of the > > > > > > songs had really dropped off. This was not the Jackson 5; they were > > now The > > > > > > Jacksons. > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > 2009/7/8 [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > MJ, well he was good at the start, with the rest of the family > > behind > > > > > > > him. There is no doubt that the Jackson 5 wrote and performed > > sopme > > > > > > > fine music. And yes the vidoe for the single Thriller was the > > first > > > > > > > of it's kind so i gues the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
