Lee, if you see this guy reach under the table, hit the floor! On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:56 AM, ornamentalmind <[email protected]>wrote:
> > *** quietly smokes a cigar *** > > On Aug 21, 8:03 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Ahhh no flies on you sir! > > > > On 21 Aug, 15:23, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > and yet, you just did, you sly dog. > > > > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:18 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Well now you see the obvouse pun now would be about your little > > > > friend, but I wont Chris, I just wont. > > > > > > On 21 Aug, 15:09, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > COS I'M COOBAN TO DA CORE, BABY! (best Scarface impersonation). > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM, retiredjim34 < > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > How did a discussion of core philosophies migrate to a discussion > of > > > > > > Cuba policies? Amazing. > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 11:25 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Perhaps you present the fallacy of a special case? Truth is, > > > > > > > 'it' (Cuban issues) as it is today, started long ago. The roots > are > > > > > > > firm and deep. The causes complex. And, the schoolmate of Fidel > was > > > > > > > the daughter (not an 'old man' today) of the top dentist in > > > > > > > Havana...they were well placed and moneyed. > > > > > > > > > Yes, perhaps some of your friends from Cuba weren’t able to > have a > > > > > > > cell phone. [fake tears] > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they were among those let out of prison or the mental > > > > > > > institutions. Neither you nor I know for sure. And, if > anything, > > > > being > > > > > > > younger just serves to be ignorant of the past in general. In > this > > > > > > > case, I wonder just how well educated they are on the US > embargo? > > > > > > > Also, it does sound like they have come to the right place for > their > > > > > > > proclivities. > > > > > > > > > Overall, both countries can hold claim to having governments > that are > > > > > > > of the oligarchy class. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 9:42 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Orn, Fallacy of Division? > > > > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division > > > > > > > > > > Really. > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of the folks whom you refer to are old men. > I'm > > > > > > talking > > > > > > > > about people in MY age group, kids who came across starting > with > > > > the > > > > > > Mariel > > > > > > > > boat lift, and since then. They have no vested interest, > except > > > > fleeing > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > starving and oppressed country for a land of opportunity. > > > > > > > > > > Bay of Pigs, really? This isn't the sixties. We're talking > about > > > > modern > > > > > > > > times here. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Having lived in Florida, known gun runners for the Bay of > Pigs as > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > as a woman who went to school with Fidel, it is easy to see > why > > > > those > > > > > > > > > thrown out by Fidel and/or those who had their businesses > > > > socialized > > > > > > > > > would be anti-Cuban government. It is similar to > corporations > > > > being > > > > > > > > > anti-socialized medicine. There is a vested interest, > period. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 8:24 am, Chris Jenkins < > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Having been born in and spent much time in Miami, I've > been > > > > exposed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > Cuban expatriates who lived under Fidel, and they are > extremely > > > > > > > > > > pro-American, and anti-Fidel. They describe a life of > poverty > > > > and > > > > > > > > > oppression > > > > > > > > > > that in their experience, was caused not by '*El > Bloqueo'*, but > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > policies of Fidel's government. Dissent is punishable by > death. > > > > The > > > > > > > > > average > > > > > > > > > > citizen of Cuba is not allowed a cell phone, but > governmental > > > > > > officials > > > > > > > > > are. > > > > > > > > > > The average citizen of Cuba is not allowed internet > access, but > > > > > > > > > governmental > > > > > > > > > > officials are. Etc. Etc. Etc. Some of these things are > > > > beginning to > > > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > > now that Raoul is taking over day to day management of > the > > > > country, > > > > > > and I > > > > > > > > > > think you will find that *'El Bloqueo'* will be quick to > go > > > > away > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been a healthy commerce market in Cuba for this > > > > entire > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > despite the blockade, if you were a member of power. > German > > > > > > tourists had > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > problem at all bringing their money there to spend, > savoring > > > > the > > > > > > local * > > > > > > > > > > jineteras*, and throwing currency around freely. I know a > half > > > > > > dozen > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > who can provide me with "Dominican" cigars, picked up in > Havana > > > > and > > > > > > > > > routed > > > > > > > > > > through D.R. to be banded, avoiding the blockade. The > Party > > > > lives > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > comfort, and allows its citizens to starve, and blames it > on > > > > the US > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > order > > > > > > > > > > to stir up anti-American sentiment. It doesn't work. The > > > > citizens, > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > most part, know better, and still come here in droves. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a shame you didn't make it down to Florida in your > trip > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > *Havanita > > > > > > > > > > * would have provided you with an education from Cubans > fresh > > > > off > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > tire. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Ian Pollard < > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that I'm using hyperbole, but surely it's > rather > > > > > > difficult > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > talk about Cuba and not be anti-American? I'm not > defending > > > > acts > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > murder, > > > > > > > > > > > but America is deeply culpable for the mess Cuba is in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2009/8/20 Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That, and the fact that the current government there > will > > > > shoot > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > > > >> family for political dissent. > > > > > > > > > > >> Let's not make it SOLELY anti-american hyperbole in > your > > > > post, > > > > > > eh, > > > > > > > > > Ian? > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Ian Pollard < > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 2009/8/19 BB47 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Differences between people often come down to core > > > > > > philosophical > > > > > > > > > > >>>> issues. Simple ideas with vast implications. These > issues > > > > are > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > > > >>>> ignored or not seen. Let me take the example of > Cuba, > > > > just as > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > >>>> illustration. They have free health care and free > > > > university > > > > > > > > > > >>>> education yet there are many of those people that > decided > > > > to > > > > > > risk > > > > > > > > > > >>>> their very LIVES on a piece of wood through shark > > > > infested > > > > > > waters > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > >>>> get here, where there is no government health care. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> You love your strawmen, BB. :) Just to be clear on a > point > > > > of > > > > > > fact: > > > > > > > > > > >>> Cuban's are not risking their lives to escape free > health > > > > care > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > education > > > > > > > > > > >>> because they reeeeally want to pay for these > services. They > > > > > > risk > > > > > > > > > their lives > > > > > > > > > > >>> to earn money for their families which is otherwise > > > > > > unattainable > > > > > > > > > because of > > > > > > > > > > >>> the isolation caused by el bloqueo. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Ian- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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