How did a discussion of core philosophies migrate to a discussion of Cuba policies? Amazing.
On Aug 20, 11:25 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps you present the fallacy of a special case? Truth is, > 'it' (Cuban issues) as it is today, started long ago. The roots are > firm and deep. The causes complex. And, the schoolmate of Fidel was > the daughter (not an 'old man' today) of the top dentist in > Havana...they were well placed and moneyed. > > Yes, perhaps some of your friends from Cuba weren’t able to have a > cell phone. [fake tears] > > Perhaps they were among those let out of prison or the mental > institutions. Neither you nor I know for sure. And, if anything, being > younger just serves to be ignorant of the past in general. In this > case, I wonder just how well educated they are on the US embargo? > Also, it does sound like they have come to the right place for their > proclivities. > > Overall, both countries can hold claim to having governments that are > of the oligarchy class. > > On Aug 20, 9:42 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Orn, Fallacy of Division? > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division > > > Really. > > > The vast majority of the folks whom you refer to are old men. I'm talking > > about people in MY age group, kids who came across starting with the Mariel > > boat lift, and since then. They have no vested interest, except fleeing a > > starving and oppressed country for a land of opportunity. > > > Bay of Pigs, really? This isn't the sixties. We're talking about modern > > times here. > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM, ornamentalmind > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > Having lived in Florida, known gun runners for the Bay of Pigs as well > > > as a woman who went to school with Fidel, it is easy to see why those > > > thrown out by Fidel and/or those who had their businesses socialized > > > would be anti-Cuban government. It is similar to corporations being > > > anti-socialized medicine. There is a vested interest, period. > > > > On Aug 20, 8:24 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Having been born in and spent much time in Miami, I've been exposed to > > > many > > > > Cuban expatriates who lived under Fidel, and they are extremely > > > > pro-American, and anti-Fidel. They describe a life of poverty and > > > oppression > > > > that in their experience, was caused not by '*El Bloqueo'*, but by the > > > > policies of Fidel's government. Dissent is punishable by death. The > > > average > > > > citizen of Cuba is not allowed a cell phone, but governmental officials > > > are. > > > > The average citizen of Cuba is not allowed internet access, but > > > governmental > > > > officials are. Etc. Etc. Etc. Some of these things are beginning to > > > change > > > > now that Raoul is taking over day to day management of the country, and > > > > I > > > > think you will find that *'El Bloqueo'* will be quick to go away with > > > those > > > > changes. > > > > > There has been a healthy commerce market in Cuba for this entire time > > > > despite the blockade, if you were a member of power. German tourists had > > > no > > > > problem at all bringing their money there to spend, savoring the local * > > > > jineteras*, and throwing currency around freely. I know a half dozen > > > people > > > > who can provide me with "Dominican" cigars, picked up in Havana and > > > routed > > > > through D.R. to be banded, avoiding the blockade. The Party lives in > > > > comfort, and allows its citizens to starve, and blames it on the US in > > > order > > > > to stir up anti-American sentiment. It doesn't work. The citizens, for > > > the > > > > most part, know better, and still come here in droves. > > > > > It's a shame you didn't make it down to Florida in your trip here. > > > *Havanita > > > > * would have provided you with an education from Cubans fresh off the > > > tire. > > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > I don't know that I'm using hyperbole, but surely it's rather > > > > > difficult > > > to > > > > > talk about Cuba and not be anti-American? I'm not defending acts of > > > murder, > > > > > but America is deeply culpable for the mess Cuba is in. > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > 2009/8/20 Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > > > That, and the fact that the current government there will shoot their > > > whole > > > > >> family for political dissent. > > > > >> Let's not make it SOLELY anti-american hyperbole in your post, eh, > > > Ian? > > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Ian Pollard <[email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > > > >>> 2009/8/19 BB47 <[email protected]> > > > > > >>>> Differences between people often come down to core philosophical > > > > >>>> issues. Simple ideas with vast implications. These issues are > > > > >>>> often > > > > >>>> ignored or not seen. Let me take the example of Cuba, just as an > > > > >>>> illustration. They have free health care and free university > > > > >>>> education yet there are many of those people that decided to risk > > > > >>>> their very LIVES on a piece of wood through shark infested waters > > > to > > > > >>>> get here, where there is no government health care. > > > > > >>> You love your strawmen, BB. :) Just to be clear on a point of fact: > > > > >>> Cuban's are not risking their lives to escape free health care and > > > education > > > > >>> because they reeeeally want to pay for these services. They risk > > > their lives > > > > >>> to earn money for their families which is otherwise unattainable > > > because of > > > > >>> the isolation caused by el bloqueo. > > > > > >>> Ian- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
