http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR108kwNo4&feature=PlayList&p=8D797588ACFEA499&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30
:-) Francis On 25 Aug., 10:14, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:46 PM, jimmy sayers<[email protected]> wrote: > > it under scots law it is up to the scot law to allow them home for there > > last day it is our country our laws if you do not like them tough scotland > > forever > > Now that's a sentiment I understand. To be truly effective and > representative you should have accompanied your post with a link to > some plaid skirted bagpipers screeching some patriotic racket. > > I wonder what Sean Connery thinks? James Bond would have popped a cap > in his bloody arse I think. > > The distance I have from this whole affair prevents me from getting > all worked up over it. My president appropriately complained(and he > didn't wait two weeks to do it!) so I'm happy. Our leaders here in > the United States apparently have a better grasp on justice and > compassion to victim's families then leaders of other countries. > Sigh. It's a burden being a moral compass to the world. > > Heh. > > dj > > > > >> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:28:29 -0700 > >> Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Scottish infamy > >> From: [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] > > >> The religious aspect is not concomitant with the pragmatics of law, > >> the issuance of punishment was not by the dictum of the victims nor > >> myself, but solely by the authoritative jurisdiction in accordance > >> with the governing laws. The sentence was life in prison and the > >> action to modify sentence sets a precedent that all prisoners confined > >> by life sentence should be sent home if terminally ill. Is anyone > >> else going home? > > >> On Aug 24, 12:11 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Behind Slip's view seems to be a line of thinking which, in my view, > >> > places emphasis on the idea of punishment and the satisfaction that > >> > witnessing punishment, or knowing that it is taking place, gives to > >> > victims or the relatives and friends of victims. > > >> > It has always struck me as an unappetising, thin gruel. It has a long > >> > tradition in Christianity, though; the idea that part of the joy of > >> > the saints consists in witnessing the eternal punishment of the wicked > >> > in hell goes back to Church fathers such as Tertullian and Augustine, > >> > is reinforced by Aquinas and, following the Reformation, a point on > >> > which both sides remain in agreement. Here's a quotation from the 18th > >> > Century American Congregational theologian, Jonathan Edwards: > > >> > "When they [the saints in heaven] shall see the smoke of their torment > >> > [the damned], > >> > and the raging of the flames of their burning, and hear their dolorous > >> > shrieks and cries, > >> > and consider that they in the meantime are in the most blissful state, > >> > and shall surely be > >> > in it to all eternity; how will they rejoice!" > > >> > The source for this is a master's thesis in some sort of biblical > >> > theology, in which the author - today - defends the > >> > concept:http://virtual.rts.edu/Site/Virtual/Resources/Student_Theses/Johnson-... > > >> > It's time for us to grow out of such primitive, barbarian notions. > > >> > Francis > > >> > On 24 Aug., 18:12, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > >> > wrote: > > >> > > Heh Slip, I really don't know how you can claim such a thing when I > >> > > have expressly denied it, unless you mean to call me a liar sir? > > >> > > I'll reiterate it though. It is a logical disicion to try to not lead > >> > > the life of a hypocrit and has nothing to do with my faith. Ian I > >> > > feel (and please tell me if I am wrong Ian) also does not want to live > >> > > a life hypocritical of his well reasoned 'philosophies' it need not > >> > > have anything to do with religoin nor spirtuality and I assure you > >> > > Slip with me it does not. > > >> > > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you > >> > > can declare: > > >> > > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that > >> > > would lead to the punishment' > > >> > > And then later state: > > >> > > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the > >> > > consequences of their actions; when I > >> > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' > > >> > > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for > >> > > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you > >> > > have a problem. > > >> > > Does that read right Slip? > > >> > > Does that seem fair? It looks very much like one rule for 'me' and > >> > > another for 'not me', I think you can see the inherent selfishness > >> > > there? Or perhaps it is merely a lack of empathy towards the plight > >> > > of your fellow man? > > >> > > Help me understand why this seems to be the case mate, or let me know > >> > > exactly where I have read you wrong? > > >> > > Okay no sister, what about a father a mother or a child. Would you > >> > > disown your child? Remember here my main point is one of compassion, > >> > > if your child performed an act of murder could you never feel > >> > > compassion enough to have them home to die with you? > > >> > > That sounds harsh man. > > >> > > I know if it was my son, yes I'd despair that he could peform such an > >> > > act, but he will always be my son, I could never just switch off the > >> > > love and I would hope that those in charge of his detention would show > >> > > me and his mother compassion enough to let him come home to die. > > >> > > On 24 Aug, 16:53, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took > >> > > > > ahold > >> > > > > in my life. > > >> > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the > >> > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.<<Lee > > >> > > > Really though, right there you are saying your conclusion is based > >> > > > on > >> > > > the "commitment" of not living hypocritical, commitment to your > >> > > > beliefs, your religion. > > >> > > > If my sister (though I don't have one) went on a killing spree in a > >> > > > foreign country I wouldn't have anything to do with her, fact is she > >> > > > might decide to kill me for some reason if I took her in, she might > >> > > > want to take me and my family with her. She's a murderer, why do I > >> > > > want her? She could rot in jail for all I care, I didn't tell her > >> > > > to > >> > > > kill people. I'm sure you know the story about the scorpion and the > >> > > > frog. > > >> > > > I've lived by a very simply rule: People can do whatever they want > >> > > > in > >> > > > life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when > >> > > > I > >> > > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem. > >> > > > I > >> > > > give my advice and then you do what you want, just don't come back > >> > > > to > >> > > > me with your woe. > > >> > > > It's a simple clear cut no nonsense way of living that works really > >> > > > well for me. > > >> > > > On Aug 24, 9:30 am, "[email protected]" > >> > > > <[email protected]> > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > You would be wrong I'm afraid Slip. > > >> > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took > >> > > > > ahold > >> > > > > in my life. > > >> > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the > >> > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life. > > >> > > > > Compassion should not have cavets attached, or do you think > >> > > > > otherwise? What about the differance between this chap and Ronnie > >> > > > > Biggs, is it merely the level of the crime? > > >> > > > > Your thoughts about the family of criminals are not logicaly > >> > > > > sound, I > >> > > > > think perhaps your stance stems from an emotional place instead? > >> > > > > You > >> > > > > are correct I would not like to see any punishment for the familes > >> > > > > of > >> > > > > those who have commited crime. > > >> > > > > We all apply rules to our own lives, and one of mine is and always > >> > > > > has > >> > > > > been trying to see things from the other perspective. What Slip > >> > > > > if > >> > > > > your sister was imprisioned in a foriegn country for a killing > >> > > > > spree, > >> > > > > and she had developed cancer but was refused compasinate leave to > >> > > > > come > >> > > > > home and die, would you not be upset, would you be shouting at the > >> > > > > callousness of those that refused your compassionate reasoning? > > >> > > > > If you would answer that indeed you would be upset, that you would > >> > > > > find it unfair and callouse and not compassionate then, to apply > >> > > > > this > >> > > > > to yourself only and no other is hypocritical yes? > > >> > > > > What is the logic for such a stance? > > >> > > > > Lets also talk a little about the role of punishment and blame. > >> > > > > If I > >> > > > > killed a man and died in prison, your stance says that I have > >> > > > > brought > >> > > > > that upon my family, that I am to blame. > > >> > > > > What then of determinism, can I not lay that blame on my culture, > >> > > > > my > >> > > > > upbringing, society, the eon I find myself born into, my genetic > >> > > > > stock? > > >> > > > > Ultimatly and logical we should all be Rastaferians, and call for > >> > > > > repatriation back to the mother land, yes sir all hail Marcus > >> > > > > Garvey! > > >> > > > > Heh and yes I am of course anti death penalty. Again, to kill > >> > > > > somebody > >> > > > > for the crime of killing, makes no logical sense to me. > > >> > > > > On 24 Aug, 15:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > I have a feeling that your "religious" beliefs are supporting > >> > > > > > your > >> > > > > > position on compassion. Do you own a anti-death penalty > >> > > > > > placard? > > >> > > > > > If his family is punished it > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
