I can see it now, every lifer praying for cancer!
On Aug 24, 12:28 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> The religious aspect is not concomitant with the pragmatics of law,
> the issuance of punishment was not by the dictum of the victims nor
> myself, but solely by the authoritative jurisdiction in accordance
> with the governing laws. The sentence was life in prison and the
> action to modify sentence sets a precedent that all prisoners confined
> by life sentence should be sent home if terminally ill. Is anyone
> else going home?
>
> On Aug 24, 12:11 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Behind Slip's view seems to be a line of thinking which, in my view,
> > places emphasis on the idea of punishment and the satisfaction that
> > witnessing punishment, or knowing that it is taking place, gives to
> > victims or the relatives and friends of victims.
>
> > It has always struck me as an unappetising, thin gruel. It has a long
> > tradition in Christianity, though; the idea that part of the joy of
> > the saints consists in witnessing the eternal punishment of the wicked
> > in hell goes back to Church fathers such as Tertullian and Augustine,
> > is reinforced by Aquinas and, following the Reformation, a point on
> > which both sides remain in agreement. Here's a quotation from the 18th
> > Century American Congregational theologian, Jonathan Edwards:
>
> > "When they [the saints in heaven] shall see the smoke of their torment
> > [the damned],
> > and the raging of the flames of their burning, and hear their dolorous
> > shrieks and cries,
> > and consider that they in the meantime are in the most blissful state,
> > and shall surely be
> > in it to all eternity; how will they rejoice!"
>
> > The source for this is a master's thesis in some sort of biblical
> > theology, in which the author - today - defends the
> > concept:http://virtual.rts.edu/Site/Virtual/Resources/Student_Theses/Johnson-...
>
> > It's time for us to grow out of such primitive, barbarian notions.
>
> > Francis
>
> > On 24 Aug., 18:12, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Heh Slip, I really don't know how you can claim such a thing when I
> > > have expressly denied it, unless you mean to call me a liar sir?
>
> > > I'll reiterate it though. It is a logical disicion to try to not lead
> > > the life of a hypocrit and has nothing to do with my faith. Ian I
> > > feel (and please tell me if I am wrong Ian) also does not want to live
> > > a life hypocritical of his well reasoned 'philosophies' it need not
> > > have anything to do with religoin nor spirtuality and I assure you
> > > Slip with me it does not.
>
> > > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you
> > > can declare:
>
> > > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that
> > > would lead to the punishment'
>
> > > And then later state:
>
> > > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the
> > > consequences of their actions; when I
> > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.'
>
> > > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for
> > > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you
> > > have a problem.
>
> > > Does that read right Slip?
>
> > > Does that seem fair? It looks very much like one rule for 'me' and
> > > another for 'not me', I think you can see the inherent selfishness
> > > there? Or perhaps it is merely a lack of empathy towards the plight
> > > of your fellow man?
>
> > > Help me understand why this seems to be the case mate, or let me know
> > > exactly where I have read you wrong?
>
> > > Okay no sister, what about a father a mother or a child. Would you
> > > disown your child? Remember here my main point is one of compassion,
> > > if your child performed an act of murder could you never feel
> > > compassion enough to have them home to die with you?
>
> > > That sounds harsh man.
>
> > > I know if it was my son, yes I'd despair that he could peform such an
> > > act, but he will always be my son, I could never just switch off the
> > > love and I would hope that those in charge of his detention would show
> > > me and his mother compassion enough to let him come home to die.
>
> > > On 24 Aug, 16:53, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold
> > > > > in my life.
>
> > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the
> > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.<<Lee
>
> > > > Really though, right there you are saying your conclusion is based on
> > > > the "commitment" of not living hypocritical, commitment to your
> > > > beliefs, your religion.
>
> > > > If my sister (though I don't have one) went on a killing spree in a
> > > > foreign country I wouldn't have anything to do with her, fact is she
> > > > might decide to kill me for some reason if I took her in, she might
> > > > want to take me and my family with her. She's a murderer, why do I
> > > > want her? She could rot in jail for all I care, I didn't tell her to
> > > > kill people. I'm sure you know the story about the scorpion and the
> > > > frog.
>
> > > > I've lived by a very simply rule: People can do whatever they want in
> > > > life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when I
> > > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem. I
> > > > give my advice and then you do what you want, just don't come back to
> > > > me with your woe.
>
> > > > It's a simple clear cut no nonsense way of living that works really
> > > > well for me.
>
> > > > On Aug 24, 9:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > You would be wrong I'm afraid Slip.
>
> > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold
> > > > > in my life.
>
> > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the
> > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.
>
> > > > > Compassion should not have cavets attached, or do you think
> > > > > otherwise? What about the differance between this chap and Ronnie
> > > > > Biggs, is it merely the level of the crime?
>
> > > > > Your thoughts about the family of criminals are not logicaly sound, I
> > > > > think perhaps your stance stems from an emotional place instead? You
> > > > > are correct I would not like to see any punishment for the familes of
> > > > > those who have commited crime.
>
> > > > > We all apply rules to our own lives, and one of mine is and always has
> > > > > been trying to see things from the other perspective. What Slip if
> > > > > your sister was imprisioned in a foriegn country for a killing spree,
> > > > > and she had developed cancer but was refused compasinate leave to come
> > > > > home and die, would you not be upset, would you be shouting at the
> > > > > callousness of those that refused your compassionate reasoning?
>
> > > > > If you would answer that indeed you would be upset, that you would
> > > > > find it unfair and callouse and not compassionate then, to apply this
> > > > > to yourself only and no other is hypocritical yes?
>
> > > > > What is the logic for such a stance?
>
> > > > > Lets also talk a little about the role of punishment and blame. If I
> > > > > killed a man and died in prison, your stance says that I have brought
> > > > > that upon my family, that I am to blame.
>
> > > > > What then of determinism, can I not lay that blame on my culture, my
> > > > > upbringing, society, the eon I find myself born into, my genetic
> > > > > stock?
>
> > > > > Ultimatly and logical we should all be Rastaferians, and call for
> > > > > repatriation back to the mother land, yes sir all hail Marcus Garvey!
>
> > > > > Heh and yes I am of course anti death penalty. Again, to kill somebody
> > > > > for the crime of killing, makes no logical sense to me.
>
> > > > > On 24 Aug, 15:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I have a feeling that your "religious" beliefs are supporting your
> > > > > > position on compassion. Do you own a anti-death penalty placard?
>
> > > > > > If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that
> > > > > > would lead to the punishment. I suppose you think we, here in the
> > > > > > US,
> > > > > > should let Charles Manson go home if he becomes terminally ill with
> > > > > > cancer, after all you don't want to punish his family, do you?
>
> > > > > > Or how about Gary Ridgway, Lee? The green river killer who claimed
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > have raped, tortured and killed over 90 young women and teenage
> > > > > > girls. You wouldn't want Mr. Ridgway's family to be punished, now
> > > > > > would you? You think we should send him home to die in the
> > > > > > comforting
> > > > > > arm of his family.
>
> > > > > > You sense of compassion is maligned, in my view of course.
>
> > > > > > On Aug 24, 6:30 am, "[email protected]"
> > > > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I really don't know about this man's innocence or his guilt, it is
> > > > > > > irrelevant to 'compassion'
>
> > > > > > > My dad while I was in my teens got pretty badly stabbed up, he
> > > > > > > died
> > > > > > > and was resusercated, his attaker got a two year suspended
> > > > > > > sentance,
> > > > > > > suspended for two years. He never done any jail time, but evn if
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > father had died, and this man had spent no matter how many years
> > > > > > > inside, I would still have no qualms about his realease on
> > > > > > > 'Compassionate' grounds.
>
> > > > > > > After all as I have asked, why should his family be punished for
> > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > deeds?
>
> > > > > > > As the familes of the bombing yes of course I feel for them, but
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > said yourself 'some form of closer'. The bloke has been inside,
> > > > > > > he has
> > > > > > > served time for the crime, now he is dieing, why should he not be
> > > > > > > able
> > > > > > > to die at home, why should his wife and kids not be aforded that?
>
> > > > > > > What in essance you are saying here, is that this man nor his
> > > > > > > family
> > > > > > > should be
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
