Well said Don, my sentiments exactly.
On Aug 25, 4:52 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lee, I don't see how you can equate the run of the mill convict family
> with the family of a mass murderer. The Una Bomber's own brother
> turned him in. Some crimes are so heinous family members turn in
> their own. We aren't talking petty theft or robbery or burglary here
> we're talking deliberate butchery for either the pleasure of killing
> or the advancement of some political/religious goal. Soldiers weren't
> killed. Women and children were killed. In fact, this was the intent
> to foment terror. In U.S. law, we look at intent. I can see showing
> compassion to a man that took some cold meds, unsuspectingly drank
> spiked punch at his wife's retirement party and then while rushing
> home to a desperate plea from his elderly mother for help he runs over
> and kills a pedestrian. He's still guilty as hell but I wouldn't
> stick him with a harsh sentence. Even if it was my loved one that was
> killed.
>
> By your logic we should show compassion to a pair of murderers because
> they are, lets say, orphans. Never mind they are orphans because they
> murdered their parents for the inheritance. It would be hypocritical
> of me to concern myself with HOW they became orphans, yes? The poor
> dears deserve our sympathy.
>
> dj
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:43 AM,
>
> [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry Slip, but you failed to address any of my questions what-so-
> > ever there. You brushed aside my enqiury into what I see as your own
> > hypocrasy and declared the two opposing statements you made as
> > unconnected.
>
> > Let us remind ourselves then of the way it has thus far run and well
> > see if I can't squeeze an answer out of you.
>
> > I asked initialy:
>
> > 'why should his family be punished for his deeds?'
>
> > Your reply to that question was:
>
> > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that
> > would lead to the punishment'
>
> > So you are saying here in essance that he brought such punishment upon
> > his own family, I note that also is not an answer to the question,
> > more of a dodge really. So you fail to let me know your thoughts on
> > the family and instead concentrate on the man himself. A conclusion
> > then that can be reached by your lack of response is that you just
> > don't care about the punishment of his family.
>
> > So when you state:
>
> > ''People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the
> > consequences of their actions; when I
> > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.'
>
> > Then again a conclusion that can be reached is that you sir are
> > engaging in a philosopher of live that you are not willing to extend
> > to others, no such golden rule then?
>
> > Slip, please proove me wrong, instead of dismising my questions answer
> > them.
>
> > You are correct though Slip, I can see that I have obviously projected
> > my own feelings upon the family, but I do so from experiance. The
> > majority of those families with sons or daughters or mothers and
> > fathers in prison do not suddenly unlove them, they do go and visit,
> > they are happy on the day of their release, they cry in court when
> > they are sentanced, family ties are strong yes? I do not think that
> > such supposition is unreasonable do you?
>
> > On 24 Aug, 18:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you
> >> can declare:
> >> 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that
> >> would lead to the punishment'
> >> And then later state:
> >> 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the
> >> consequences of their actions; when I
> >> have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.'
>
> >> This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for
> >> the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you
> >> have a problem.
>
> >> Does that read right Slip?
>
> >> No it does not read right Lee, that is your interpretive stretch. The
> >> comments are unrelated in the sense one applies to a personal
> >> situation which you presented concerning a member of my family. How
> >> the other family feels is entirely up to them and truthfully you are
> >> imposing a premise that all families are suffering. We cannot
> >> conclude that all families of murderers are suffering over the
> >> incarceration of one of their members.
> >> IF you want to go there we can talk about the teenage Muslim girl
> >> being forced to go back to Ohio where she is afraid her own "Father"
> >> wants to kill her because she converted to Christianity. You see she
> >> has brought shame upon the family and they hate her. Honor killings
> >> are real, Lee.
>
> >> NOW!! Imagine that the girl went out on a killing spree and she was
> >> dying in prison!
>
> >>http://www.examiner.com/x-17009-Freethought-Examiner~y2009m8d11-Runaw...
>
> >> So Lee, you are imposing the dictates your conscience as a means to
> >> judgment based on preconceived notions.
>
> >> For all I care Lee, you could fly to Libya tomorrow and give the whole
> >> family a big juicy kiss. Don't worry about the victims families Lee,
> >> they'll understand that you are compassionate towards the murderer and
> >> his family. Maybe you could partake in a hospice style visit to see
> >> him out in his last days.
>
> >> On Aug 24, 11:12 am, "[email protected]"
>
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > Heh Slip, I really don't know how you can claim such a thing when I
> >> > have expressly denied it, unless you mean to call me a liar sir?
>
> >> > I'll reiterate it though. It is a logical disicion to try to not lead
> >> > the life of a hypocrit and has nothing to do with my faith. Ian I
> >> > feel (and please tell me if I am wrong Ian) also does not want to live
> >> > a life hypocritical of his well reasoned 'philosophies' it need not
> >> > have anything to do with religoin nor spirtuality and I assure you
> >> > Slip with me it does not.
>
> >> > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you
> >> > can declare:
>
> >> > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that
> >> > would lead to the punishment'
>
> >> > And then later state:
>
> >> > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the
> >> > consequences of their actions; when I
> >> > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.'
>
> >> > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for
> >> > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you
> >> > have a problem.
>
> >> > Does that read right Slip?
>
> >> > Does that seem fair? It looks very much like one rule for 'me' and
> >> > another for 'not me', I think you can see the inherent selfishness
> >> > there? Or perhaps it is merely a lack of empathy towards the plight
> >> > of your fellow man?
>
> >> > Help me understand why this seems to be the case mate, or let me know
> >> > exactly where I have read you wrong?
>
> >> > Okay no sister, what about a father a mother or a child. Would you
> >> > disown your child? Remember here my main point is one of compassion,
> >> > if your child performed an act of murder could you never feel
> >> > compassion enough to have them home to die with you?
>
> >> > That sounds harsh man.
>
> >> > I know if it was my son, yes I'd despair that he could peform such an
> >> > act, but he will always be my son, I could never just switch off the
> >> > love and I would hope that those in charge of his detention would show
> >> > me and his mother compassion enough to let him come home to die.
>
> >> > On 24 Aug, 16:53, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold
> >> > > > in my life.
>
> >> > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the
> >> > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.<<Lee
>
> >> > > Really though, right there you are saying your conclusion is based on
> >> > > the "commitment" of not living hypocritical, commitment to your
> >> > > beliefs, your religion.
>
> >> > > If my sister (though I don't have one) went on a killing spree in a
> >> > > foreign country I wouldn't have anything to do with her, fact is she
> >> > > might decide to kill me for some reason if I took her in, she might
> >> > > want to take me and my family with her. She's a murderer, why do I
> >> > > want her? She could rot in jail for all I care, I didn't tell her to
> >> > > kill people. I'm sure you know the story about the scorpion and the
> >> > > frog.
>
> >> > > I've lived by a very simply rule: People can do whatever they want in
> >> > > life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when I
> >> > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem. I
> >> > > give my advice and then you do what you want, just don't come back to
> >> > > me with your woe.
>
> >> > > It's a simple clear cut no nonsense way of living that works really
> >> > > well for me.
>
> >> > > On Aug 24, 9:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
>
> >> > > > You would be wrong I'm afraid Slip.
>
> >> > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold
> >> > > > in my life.
>
> >> > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the
> >> > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.
>
> >> > > > Compassion should not have cavets attached, or do you think
> >> > > > otherwise? What about the differance between this chap and Ronnie
> >> > > > Biggs, is it merely the level of the crime?
>
> >> > > > Your thoughts about the family of criminals are not logicaly sound, I
> >> > > > think perhaps your stance stems from an emotional place instead? You
> >> > > > are correct I would not like to see any punishment for the familes of
> >> > > > those who have commited crime.
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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