"...If one looks at mineral mining (for Coltan and so on) in Africa, one finds a trail of deception leading to Western commerce, ..." - Neil
The Bush diamond mines are legends here too. On Sep 4, 7:37 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Our great leader (the pathetic Brown) has given a speech today telling > us once again his judgement is we must be in Afghanistan, whilst > doling out the same non-reasons and throwing in the disruption of > Africa by Al Q. It all looks increasingly like '1984'. I haven't seen > any open discussion of how this 'terrorism' is being funded - this > would be the first point of attack if 'anti-terrorism' is the real > cause. If one looks at mineral mining (for Coltan and so on) in > Africa, one finds a trail of deception leading to Western commerce, > beginning in squalid exploitation, local taxation through men with > guns (government and otherwise), dodgy Thai holding companies and so > on - much like tales of 'red rubber' a century ago. These activities > rely on nasty forms of government. My guess is wars really benefit > this kind of activity and it is what they are for. > > On 3 Sep, 17:42, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > One main issue with Afghanistan and war there today is that even BO, > > when asked, could not come up with a vision of what a 'win' would look > > like. And, of course, it is said by most that OBL has long left the > > country. > > > In a way, I am happy he admits this. I like this better than looking > > for invisible WMDs. > > > On Sep 2, 9:18 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > In a nutshell Rigsby - but how does it work so well and why can't we > > > stop it and do something more sensible? I've noticed a couple of > > > reports that we are blowing up our own helicopters in Afghanistan (I > > > say 'ours' but assume we Brits are still paying you Yanks for them) - > > > two this week. This suggests the Taliban are finding ways to ground > > > them and that we can't even hold ground long enough to repair them. > > > Perhaps we are not 'winning'? Our ever gullible media doesn't seem to > > > have latched on yet. I strangely believe we need a strong military > > > because we have to put an end to banditry - but who would this 'we' > > > be? > > > > On 2 Sep, 17:53, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > 'We' in the US would somehow have to agree that our entire economic > > > > system would no longer be based upon arms manufacture. This would be > > > > difficult. While big pharma is the most lucrative business (makes > > > > largest profits) here, the amount of money spent on arms is blinding. > > > > This was determined long ago. IF one thinks that the monies pouring > > > > into Washington DC via lobbyists today is of large quantity, try to > > > > reduce the public monies earmarked for arms! While big pharma does > > > > have some chemists and sales staff it supports, along with the media > > > > via advertisements along with ‘drug stores’, think about the whining > > > > by those still employed by Boeing along with the congress members > > > > sucking on the military industrial complex tit. > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing > > > > > Since congress orders the arms and approvals payment using ‘our’ > > > > money, and, since ‘we’ elect these congress members, there is a link. > > > > > On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The removal does not render it non-existent. President Eisenhower did > > > > > actually coin the term regardless of it's use. The concept is as > > > > > alive and well now as it has always been. I don't know that we'll > > > > > ever be able to pull ourselves out from under it. > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex#Origin_of_th... > > > > > > On Sep 1, 11:10 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > In the US, when President Eisenhower gave his farewell speech, he > > > > > > was > > > > > > going to mention the "political, military industrial complex". Since > > > > > > he at the time had a fairly good relationship with congress, he > > > > > > removed the political part. This according to one of his progeny. > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 7:29 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I watched the film of Naomi Klein's 'Disaster Shock' a couple of > > > > > > > hours > > > > > > > back. This rather puts war and terror at the door of free market > > > > > > > carpet baggers. I have long believed this to be true - the 'road > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > serfdom' always being built by an elite. Who are they these days? > > > > > > > > On 1 Sep, 21:07, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > “I see no merit or value in the idea of patriotism, to my mind > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > serves to divide mankind and seriously renders the coming > > > > > > > > together as > > > > > > > > a species, rather than as distinct 'subsets' of the same specise > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > If we are to feel prinde in the achivents of our countries then > > > > > > > > logicaly we should then feel shame for the crimes, yet I don't > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > can point to a single patriot willing to feel such shame.” – Lee > > > > > > > > > Lee, there is merit in what you say here. And, I will quibble > > > > > > > > with a > > > > > > > > few words and notions a bit, OK? :- ) > > > > > > > > > You make the claim that there is no merit in …. There is merit. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > allows humans to feel a part of a larger group. Yes, I know > > > > > > > > that you > > > > > > > > were not only speaking of this in a much larger view but also > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > “the IDEA of patriotism”. In a larger sense, yes, finding a more > > > > > > > > inclusive unity would appear to be preferable. True. And, on > > > > > > > > the other > > > > > > > > hand (I just saw Fiddler on the Roof, Topol’s final tour.), few > > > > > > > > today > > > > > > > > would embrace any sort of world order, be it political, > > > > > > > > economic, > > > > > > > > spiritual etc. No? And, as to the IDEA of patriotism…feeling > > > > > > > > pride in > > > > > > > > and “love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it” > > > > > > > > [http://www.onelook.com/?w=patriotism&ls=a] on the surface at > > > > > > > > least in > > > > > > > > innocuous enough. As reality is today, many countries are in > > > > > > > > fact > > > > > > > > threatened by other countries, whether one defines the country > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > terms of its leaders or the group think of its people. The > > > > > > > > reasons are > > > > > > > > legion. So, in this sense value and merit can be found in a > > > > > > > > willingness to sacrifice for an ideal, let alone a physical > > > > > > > > area of > > > > > > > > land. (country) > > > > > > > > > Further, IF one does much in an attempt to thwart such innate > > > > > > > > movements towards an apparently limited unity, what would be the > > > > > > > > result on a the possibilities of a larger one? (rhetorical Q) > > > > > > > > Truth > > > > > > > > is, I don’t know. I’m sure the answer would be multifaceted. > > > > > > > > > Continuing with your “Sticky Knot”, yes, I would agree that one > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > sees the good of a country should (LOGICALY) see the not so > > > > > > > > good. Yet, > > > > > > > > the very notion of patriotism is not founded upon any sort of > > > > > > > > dry > > > > > > > > logic. It includes all facets of the human being, including > > > > > > > > emotions. > > > > > > > > So, in this sense, tunnel vision would be expected. In fact, > > > > > > > > like an > > > > > > > > army at war, to see some things (like the opponent as being > > > > > > > > human) and > > > > > > > > not others is often a requirement for the human psyche to > > > > > > > > continue to > > > > > > > > go forth and do things. So, say IF one thought that stopping > > > > > > > > the Nazi > > > > > > > > army was a ‘good’ thing, clearly having to kill as many humans > > > > > > > > as were > > > > > > > > killed, let alone those in Japan would be by extension not only > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > merit and value, but a necessity. > > > > > > > > > Lastly, my guess is that the way you would define ‘patriot’ > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > exclude those who can see the big picture, so, in that sense, > > > > > > > > you have > > > > > > > > set the conditions and get the result as defined in your > > > > > > > > premise. > > > > > > > > > All of the above aside, for decades I have found that blind > > > > > > > > nationalism more often than not is just that … blind. Any such > > > > > > > > view > > > > > > > > misses the big picture. Some who saw this during the Viet Nam > > > > > > > > era left > > > > > > > > the US to keep from having to fight and kill for the gipper. > > > > > > > > That was > > > > > > > > one alternative. There were many others. What would one think > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > fragging? The morality of it all is quite complex. > > > > > > > > > So, yes, most of those who shout blindly for a vision/ideal can > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > seen as keeping a larger ideal/vision/unity from happening. > > > > > > > > This is > > > > > > > > one reason I go into rants when I see such uninformed views and > > > > > > > > activities unfold. > > > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:28 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the tilte is a bit missleading in that it is only an > > > > > > > > > indirect > > > > > > > > > referance to the topic I wish to talk about. > > > > > > > > > > Something Chris said last week about cultural differances had > > > > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > > pondering over the weekend about it, specificaly how strong > > > > > > > > > an effect > > > > > > > > > our culture has on our mindset, and whether or not it is > > > > > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > > formulate ideas that transend culture. > > > > > > > > > > So to kick the ball about a bit, I thought if I intruduced > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > particular sticky knot, and asked us all to bear in mind > > > > > > > > > wheter or not > > > > > > > > > or culture has any bearing on our answers to it, and if so > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > effect, then perhaps we could find out. > > > > > > > > > > Sticky Knot. > > > > > > > > > > I see no merit or value in the idea of patriotism, to my mind > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > serves to divide mankind and seriously renders the coming > > > > > > > > > together as > > > > > > > > > a species, rather than as distinct 'subsets' of the same > > > > > > > > > specise quite > > > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > > If we are to feel prinde in the achivents of our countries > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > logicaly we should then feel shame for the crimes, yet I > > > > > > > > > don't think I > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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