...and here I thought he only mined for nuggets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTYfnXbh6h4
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:40 PM, ornamentalmind <[email protected]>wrote: > > "...If one looks at mineral mining (for Coltan and so on) in > Africa, one finds a trail of deception leading to Western > commerce, ..." - Neil > > The Bush diamond mines are legends here too. > > > On Sep 4, 7:37 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Our great leader (the pathetic Brown) has given a speech today telling > > us once again his judgement is we must be in Afghanistan, whilst > > doling out the same non-reasons and throwing in the disruption of > > Africa by Al Q. It all looks increasingly like '1984'. I haven't seen > > any open discussion of how this 'terrorism' is being funded - this > > would be the first point of attack if 'anti-terrorism' is the real > > cause. If one looks at mineral mining (for Coltan and so on) in > > Africa, one finds a trail of deception leading to Western commerce, > > beginning in squalid exploitation, local taxation through men with > > guns (government and otherwise), dodgy Thai holding companies and so > > on - much like tales of 'red rubber' a century ago. These activities > > rely on nasty forms of government. My guess is wars really benefit > > this kind of activity and it is what they are for. > > > > On 3 Sep, 17:42, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > One main issue with Afghanistan and war there today is that even BO, > > > when asked, could not come up with a vision of what a 'win' would look > > > like. And, of course, it is said by most that OBL has long left the > > > country. > > > > > In a way, I am happy he admits this. I like this better than looking > > > for invisible WMDs. > > > > > On Sep 2, 9:18 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > In a nutshell Rigsby - but how does it work so well and why can't we > > > > stop it and do something more sensible? I've noticed a couple of > > > > reports that we are blowing up our own helicopters in Afghanistan (I > > > > say 'ours' but assume we Brits are still paying you Yanks for them) - > > > > two this week. This suggests the Taliban are finding ways to ground > > > > them and that we can't even hold ground long enough to repair them. > > > > Perhaps we are not 'winning'? Our ever gullible media doesn't seem > to > > > > have latched on yet. I strangely believe we need a strong military > > > > because we have to put an end to banditry - but who would this 'we' > > > > be? > > > > > > On 2 Sep, 17:53, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > 'We' in the US would somehow have to agree that our entire economic > > > > > system would no longer be based upon arms manufacture. This would > be > > > > > difficult. While big pharma is the most lucrative business (makes > > > > > largest profits) here, the amount of money spent on arms is > blinding. > > > > > This was determined long ago. IF one thinks that the monies pouring > > > > > into Washington DC via lobbyists today is of large quantity, try to > > > > > reduce the public monies earmarked for arms! While big pharma does > > > > > have some chemists and sales staff it supports, along with the > media > > > > > via advertisements along with ‘drug stores’, think about the > whining > > > > > by those still employed by Boeing along with the congress members > > > > > sucking on the military industrial complex tit. > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing > > > > > > > Since congress orders the arms and approvals payment using ‘our’ > > > > > money, and, since ‘we’ elect these congress members, there is a > link. > > > > > > > On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > The removal does not render it non-existent. President > Eisenhower did > > > > > > actually coin the term regardless of it's use. The concept is as > > > > > > alive and well now as it has always been. I don't know that > we'll > > > > > > ever be able to pull ourselves out from under it. > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex#Origin_of_th... > > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 11:10 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > In the US, when President Eisenhower gave his farewell speech, > he was > > > > > > > going to mention the "political, military industrial complex". > Since > > > > > > > he at the time had a fairly good relationship with congress, he > > > > > > > removed the political part. This according to one of his > progeny. > > > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 7:29 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I watched the film of Naomi Klein's 'Disaster Shock' a couple > of hours > > > > > > > > back. This rather puts war and terror at the door of free > market > > > > > > > > carpet baggers. I have long believed this to be true - the > 'road to > > > > > > > > serfdom' always being built by an elite. Who are they these > days? > > > > > > > > > > On 1 Sep, 21:07, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > “I see no merit or value in the idea of patriotism, to my > mind it > > > > > > > > > serves to divide mankind and seriously renders the coming > together as > > > > > > > > > a species, rather than as distinct 'subsets' of the same > specise > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > > If we are to feel prinde in the achivents of our countries > then > > > > > > > > > logicaly we should then feel shame for the crimes, yet I > don't think > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > can point to a single patriot willing to feel such shame.” > – Lee > > > > > > > > > > > Lee, there is merit in what you say here. And, I will > quibble with a > > > > > > > > > few words and notions a bit, OK? :- ) > > > > > > > > > > > You make the claim that there is no merit in …. There is > merit. It > > > > > > > > > allows humans to feel a part of a larger group. Yes, I know > that you > > > > > > > > > were not only speaking of this in a much larger view but > also about > > > > > > > > > “the IDEA of patriotism”. In a larger sense, yes, finding a > more > > > > > > > > > inclusive unity would appear to be preferable. True. And, > on the other > > > > > > > > > hand (I just saw Fiddler on the Roof, Topol’s final tour.), > few today > > > > > > > > > would embrace any sort of world order, be it political, > economic, > > > > > > > > > spiritual etc. No? And, as to the IDEA of > patriotism…feeling pride in > > > > > > > > > and “love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it” [ > http://www.onelook.com/?w=patriotism&ls=a] on the surface at least in > > > > > > > > > innocuous enough. As reality is today, many countries are > in fact > > > > > > > > > threatened by other countries, whether one defines the > country in > > > > > > > > > terms of its leaders or the group think of its people. The > reasons are > > > > > > > > > legion. So, in this sense value and merit can be found in a > > > > > > > > > willingness to sacrifice for an ideal, let alone a physical > area of > > > > > > > > > land. (country) > > > > > > > > > > > Further, IF one does much in an attempt to thwart such > innate > > > > > > > > > movements towards an apparently limited unity, what would > be the > > > > > > > > > result on a the possibilities of a larger one? (rhetorical > Q) Truth > > > > > > > > > is, I don’t know. I’m sure the answer would be > multifaceted. > > > > > > > > > > > Continuing with your “Sticky Knot”, yes, I would agree that > one who > > > > > > > > > sees the good of a country should (LOGICALY) see the not so > good. Yet, > > > > > > > > > the very notion of patriotism is not founded upon any sort > of dry > > > > > > > > > logic. It includes all facets of the human being, including > emotions. > > > > > > > > > So, in this sense, tunnel vision would be expected. In > fact, like an > > > > > > > > > army at war, to see some things (like the opponent as being > human) and > > > > > > > > > not others is often a requirement for the human psyche to > continue to > > > > > > > > > go forth and do things. So, say IF one thought that > stopping the Nazi > > > > > > > > > army was a ‘good’ thing, clearly having to kill as many > humans as were > > > > > > > > > killed, let alone those in Japan would be by extension not > only of > > > > > > > > > merit and value, but a necessity. > > > > > > > > > > > Lastly, my guess is that the way you would define ‘patriot’ > would > > > > > > > > > exclude those who can see the big picture, so, in that > sense, you have > > > > > > > > > set the conditions and get the result as defined in your > premise. > > > > > > > > > > > All of the above aside, for decades I have found that blind > > > > > > > > > nationalism more often than not is just that … blind. Any > such view > > > > > > > > > misses the big picture. Some who saw this during the Viet > Nam era left > > > > > > > > > the US to keep from having to fight and kill for the > gipper. That was > > > > > > > > > one alternative. There were many others. What would one > think about > > > > > > > > > fragging? The morality of it all is quite complex. > > > > > > > > > > > So, yes, most of those who shout blindly for a vision/ideal > can be > > > > > > > > > seen as keeping a larger ideal/vision/unity from happening. > This is > > > > > > > > > one reason I go into rants when I see such uninformed views > and > > > > > > > > > activities unfold. > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:28 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the tilte is a bit missleading in that it is only > an indirect > > > > > > > > > > referance to the topic I wish to talk about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something Chris said last week about cultural differances > had me > > > > > > > > > > pondering over the weekend about it, specificaly how > strong an effect > > > > > > > > > > our culture has on our mindset, and whether or not it is > possible to > > > > > > > > > > formulate ideas that transend culture. > > > > > > > > > > > > So to kick the ball about a bit, I thought if I > intruduced this > > > > > > > > > > particular sticky knot, and asked us all to bear in mind > wheter or not > > > > > > > > > > or culture has any bearing on our answers to it, and if > so what > > > > > > > > > > effect, then perhaps we could find out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sticky Knot. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see no merit or value in the idea of patriotism, to my > mind it > > > > > > > > > > serves to divide mankind and seriously renders the coming > together as > > > > > > > > > > a species, rather than as distinct 'subsets' of the same > specise quite > > > > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > > > If we are to feel prinde in the achivents of our > countries then > > > > > > > > > > logicaly we should then feel shame for the crimes, yet I > don't think I > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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