My goodness. My teachers tell me I can't use Wiki as a source because it's not reliable. Apparently you've found an even MORE unreliable source for your info. I have a hard time believing that 30 percent of convicted criminals are innocent. It would be much easier for me to believe that 30 percent of those found innocent are actually guilty. It seems clear you don't believe our judicial system does a very good job. I would concur but for different reasons.
We are polar opposites, apparently. dj On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:20 AM, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > “I assume you mean those that have committed heinous violent crimes > have been put to death….” – DJ > > No, I mean that those charged with crimes and called guilty by the > system have been put to death. We know now that thanks to DNA testing > and other advances that as many as 30% of those found to be guilty are/ > were not. So, any thought about ‘leniency’ has more to do with the > overall ignorance of us all. > > Yes, ‘law’, a very subjective and mercurial thing, ‘determines’ who is > put to death in the US today…sadly. > > And, it has long been said that a culture can be best judged by how it > treats its criminals. ** > > And, whether you wish to change a view that kills people who are so > stupid that they do not know what they are doing and/or kills those > who are delusional (rather than treating mental illness, something > that changed under Reagan…an illness that about 30 % of us have/had/ > or will have) does not address the ethos of it at all. > > Personally, I think that the impaired should be treated if possible > and if not, at least not be killed. > > ** > http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Crime/Archive_1 > [other quotes: > • "Deep down even the most hardened criminal is starving for the same > thing that motivates the innocent baby: Love and acceptance." ~ Lily > Fairchilde > • "A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who hasn't > sufficient capital to form a company." ~ Howard Scott > • "A society gets all the criminals it deserves." ~ Emma Goldman > • “If you commit a crime, you're guilty.” ~ Rush Limbaugh > • "There is no such crime as a crime of thought; there are only crimes > of action." ~ Clarence Darrow > • “Poverty is the mother of crime.” ~ Marcus Aurelius > • There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the > streets? ~ Dick Cavett, mocking the TV-violence debate > • “The punishment must fit the crime.” ~ Code of Hammurabi > • "To hide behind culture or tradition to justify anarchy is a gross > insult to the very people whose culture or tradition may be paraded to > glorify criminal conduct." > > • "You ask me what the greatest philosophical crime is? I would say > destroying the love between two people for selfish reasons." > • “A kleptomaniac can't help helping himself.” ~ Henry Morgan > • “When crime pays it's always in cash.” ~ Anonymous] > > • Crime is a logical extension of the sort of behaviour that is often > considered perfectly respectable in legitimate business. ~ Robert > Rice, The Business of Crime > • With homosexuality added, it would be sparkling, unassimilable. ~ > Jean Genet, The Thief's Journal, in reference to the French Gestapo. > • A society should not be judged on how it treats its outstanding > citizens but by how it treats its criminals... ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky > • He who helps the guilty, shares the crime. ~ Publilius Syrus, > Sententiae (43 BC) > • How you gon say crime don't pay when it pays my rent. ~ Shea Davis > (Rapper/Artist/Entertainer/Joke) > > > > > > On Sep 15, 6:18 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> some states, Texas is one, those with diminished >> >> > capacity..such as very low IQs are routinely put to death. 'Our' >> > justice is indeed blind. >> >> I assume you mean those that have committed heinous violent crimes >> have been put to death. While I would agree that many of the >> criminals that get caught are quite stupid I wouldn't agree that this >> means they should be shown leniency. Texas law will determine if the >> perp. knew what he did was wrong. If he did, then he gets prosecuted >> and sent to prison. Weirdos that think their children are demons(or >> at least convince a jury they think this) and systematically drown all >> six of their children to save the world can be considered insane >> because they didn't know what they were doing. Being bi-polar or >> having a bad reaction to menstrual symptoms isn't much of a defense >> here. We send these dangerous people to the big house with the rest >> of the criminals. If their crime warrants the death penalty then >> that's what they get. I see no reason to change this. If you are >> just against the death penalty that's fine but it shouldn't have >> anything to do with anyones IQ. >> >> dj >> >> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:19 PM, ornamentalmind >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Again, in the USA...some states, Texas is one, those with diminished >> > capacity..such as very low IQs are routinely put to death. 'Our' >> > justice is indeed blind. >> >> > On Sep 14, 8:48 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think then at the trial, diminished capacity needs to be proven. We >> >> don't ask anyone to stand trial and prove that while they are >> >> suffering diminished capacity. Seems humane to me. >> >> >> On Sep 14, 11:40 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > "...That seems more like vengance to me." - lee >> >> >> > Many do conflate the two...many! >> >> >> > On Sep 14, 8:35 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > > Umm draconian, perhaps, twisted sense of what justice is maybe? >> >> >> > > It makes no logical sense to me. If a man cannot be tried on the >> >> > > grounds of dimished reponsiblity, then when/if he gets better that >> >> > > does not mean that at the time of the crime his responsiblity was any >> >> > > less dimished. >> >> >> > > That seems more like vengance to me. >> >> >> > > On 14 Sep, 16:31, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > "...If then there comes a time when that person is well, that is no >> >> > > > longer >> >> > > > suffers from mental ill health, then it is also right that they be >> >> > > > intergrated back into society. ..." lee >> >> >> > > > The problem, at least here in the states, is that when said person >> >> > > > with mental illness is 'cured' enough, they can then be tried for >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > crime they committed while ill!!! Draconian at the very least! >> >> >> > > > On Sep 14, 6:05 am, "[email protected]" >> >> > > > <[email protected]> >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > > Yes I agree. Yet being 'stressed out' is not what this particular >> >> > > > > case is about. >> >> >> > > > > When I mentioned that the law already makes provision for the >> >> > > > > state of >> >> > > > > mind during a crime, what I mean is if somebody is deemed unfit to >> >> > > > > stand trial due to mental illness then they are, quiet rightly, >> >> > > > > put >> >> > > > > away into a medical facility. This is good, it shows that in the >> >> > > > > eyes >> >> > > > > of the law then that mental health issue is reconised as such. >> >> >> > > > > If then there comes a time when that person is well, that is no >> >> > > > > longer >> >> > > > > suffers from mental ill health, then it is also right that they be >> >> > > > > intergrated back into society. >> >> >> > > > > On the whole though Slip, it rather saddens me to witness such >> >> > > > > actions >> >> > > > > as performed by the black cabbies, based on a lack of education >> >> > > > > and >> >> > > > > possibly experiance. >> >> >> > > > > On 14 Sep, 13:37, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > I don't define justice, lee, it is already defined. >> >> >> > > > > > I don't think sentence reductions based on emotional duress is >> >> > > > > > justice. >> >> >> > > > > > If a sentence is a standard 25 years I don't think the criminal >> >> > > > > > should >> >> > > > > > only get 5 because he was stressed out. It's ridiculous, "In my >> >> > > > > > Opinion". >> >> >> > > > > > On Sep 14, 7:23 am, "[email protected]" >> >> > > > > > <[email protected]> >> >> > > > > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > Justice, or vengance Slip? >> >> >> > > > > > > What do you define justice as? >> >> >> > > > > > > Normal life, in this context means a life as lived free of the >> >> > > > > > > symptoms of paranoid scizophrenia. That 'maybe 'should have >> >> > > > > > > read >> >> > > > > > > 'many', my applogies. >> >> >> > > > > > > Yes I guess you don't have to agree with any law, you can >> >> > > > > > > break as >> >> > > > > > > many as you like, and then suffer the consequesnces. >> >> >> > > > > > > Part of the way I try to live my life means that I always try >> >> > > > > > > to see >> >> > > > > > > things from the other side, to put myself in the shoes of >> >> > > > > > > others. I >> >> > > > > > > know if I had suffered mental health issues and was now >> >> > > > > > > medicated and >> >> > > > > > > in effect no longer ill, I would want the chance to work, to >> >> > > > > > > make for >> >> > > > > > > myself a life. Would you not want the same? >> >> >> > > > > > > On 14 Sep, 13:04, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > > To correct you, I am compassinate. That's it. <<Lee >> >> >> > > > > > > > Ok, I stand corrected, you are just compassinate, that's it. >> >> >> > > > > > > > Maybe scizorphincs can lead a normal life. >>Lee >> >> >> > > > > > > > Yes, maybe scizorphincs can. >> >> >> > > > > > > > Of course if someone else made that statement you would be >> >> > > > > > > > the first >> >> > > > > > > > to break it down to clarification of "normal life". >> >> >> > > > > > > > If our law makes provision for the state of mind during a >> >> > > > > > > > crime, can >> >> > > > > > > > we do any less? >>Lee >> >> >> > > > > > > > I don't make the laws and don't have to agree with them. >> >> > > > > > > > The case you present sounds more like judicial politics >> >> > > > > > > > than justice. >> >> >> > > > > > > > On Sep 14, 4:12 am, "[email protected]" >> >> > > > > > > > <[email protected]> >> >> > > > > > > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Now now Slip, lets not start by telling lies about me huh. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > To correct you, I am compassinate. That's it. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > I'm not really worried about either to tell the truth, I >> >> > > > > > > > > know that >> >> > > > > > > > > scizorphincs canlead a normal life, and yes there is >> >> > > > > > > > > always the chance >> >> > > > > > > > > that this man may stop taking his medication and relaspe, >> >> > > > > > > > > but you know >> >> > > > > > > > > there is alsways the chance that anybody may full pray to >> >> > > > > > > > > deppresion >> >> > > > > > > > > and commit all many of awful acts, so if you are looking >> >> > > > > > > > > for a >> >> > > > > > > > > certianty, a risk free black cab driver, well you're just >> >> > > > > > > > > not going to >> >> > > > > > > > > get it. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > To my mind the action of these black cab drivers speaks >> >> > > > > > > > > volumes on >> >> > > > > > > > > their ignorance of that particular mental illness, again >> >> > > > > > > > > I get that, I >> >> > > > > > > > > wish it was not like it, but alas it is, education sir is >> >> > > > > > > > > what I >> >> > > > > > > > > advocate. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Let us remind ourselves also that there is scope within >> >> > > > > > > > > the law for >> >> > > > > > > > > mental health issues. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Another little tale form the life of Lee for you. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > I have told you before of my dad getting 'all stabbed up' >> >> > > > > > > > > when I was >> >> > > > > > > > > 16. During the court apperance of the bloke 'what did >> >> > > > > > > > > it' whilst my >> >> > > > > > > > > dad was in the witness box telling his side of the story >> >> > > > > > > > > it came out >> >> > > > > > > > > that after he had been stabbed in the wrist and the leg >> >> > > > > > > > > and then the >> >> > > > > > > > > chest, my dad asked the man 'wooh there, you don't really >> >> > > > > > > > > want to kill >> >> > > > > > > > > me do you'. It was right then that the bloke stabbed him >> >> > > > > > > > > in the neck. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Ultimatly the man got a two year suspended >> >> > > > > > > > > sentance(suspended also for >> >> > > > > > > > > two years). Why he lenancy? >> >> >> > > > > > > > > The man was suffering from depression, his son had died >> >> > > > > > > > > just the week >> >> > > > > > > > > previouse to him stabbing my dad. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > If our law makes provision for the state of mind during a >> >> > > > > > > > > crime, can >> >> > > > > > > > > we do any less? >> >> >> > > > > > > > > On 11 Sep, 22:08, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > I'm just hung on the "Killed His Wife" part, but >> >> > > > > > > > > > knowing how >> >> > > > > > > > > > compassionate you are towards murderers, Lee, I can >> >> > > > > > > > > > understand your >> >> > > > > > > > > > tendentious view. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > I'm sure that Black cab drivers have a legitimate >> >> > > > > > > > > > complaint in that >> >> > > > > > > > > > many people will undoubtedly "avoid" hailing a cab with >> >> > > > > > > > > > a black driver >> >> > > > > > > > > > as precautionary measure to being killed by a relapse >> >> > > > > > > > > > of paranoid >> >> > > > > > > > > > schizophrenia. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > But of course your more worried about the schizoid >> >> > > > > > > > > > murderer than the >> >> > > > > > > > > > black cab drivers. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 7:25 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday on our local London news I hear that >> >> > > > > > > > > > > thousands of black cab >> >> > > > > > > > > > > drivers intend to take to the streets to express >> >> > > > > > > > > > > their feelings of >> >> > > > > > > > > > > anger over a convicted murderer being given licence >> >> > > > > > > > > > > to take 'the >> >> > > > > > > > > > > knowledge' reqiured to allow him to become a black >> >> > > > > > > > > > > cab driver. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > The man is a paraniod scizophrenic who killed his >> >> > > > > > > > > > > wife and has been >> >> > > > > > > > > > > held for 9 years before being given a clean bill of >> >> > > > > > > > > > > health and has >> >> > > > > > > > > > > since been released. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8233750.stm >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Now I have personal experiance >> >> ... >> >> read more »- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
