" I would generally go with the postmodern notion that grand-narratives of legitimation have collapsed. I think the notion of being led by good people who act in ethical ways is such a grand- narrative and flies in the face of what happens now and can been seen as repetition of grisly history."
A great insight, Neil, very concisely expressed. To quote the Bible, which I don't often do, "without vision, the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18). Visions require faith and commitment, but - as you point out - most of the determining visions of the past few hundred years have lost their credibility for many of us. Yet humanity seems to have a dep yearning/need for this kind of thing; this is something which leaves people open to all kinds of manipulation. Observing the current debate on health-care in the USA, I see an example of this - the identification of general basic health care as a fundamental threat to the US American concept of freedom, the manipulation of a meme/myth to achieve a particular end. I also agree with your general view, which you have frequently expressed here, that debunking is essential but that we must go beyond it. As Marx put it, "the philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it" (Theses on Feuerbach, Thesis XI, 1845). But how? Our world often seems to be truly that described by Yeats in his poem "The Second Coming" (one you have also quoted here in the past): "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, ... And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" http://www.online-literature.com/yeats/780/ I don't want to finish this on a note of despair. An aspect of a possible way forward seems to me to be an effort to increase emphasis on morality/ethics - recovering/rediscovering/repossessing values like responsibility, honesty and (as you mention) fairness. Yet, fearful of their capability to survive, we tend to teach our children, by word and example, that "it's a jungle out there" and you'd better learn to use your elbows otherwise you're going to be destroyed. In many ways, politicians who peddle platitudes in which they patently do not believe are reflections of the constituencies which elect them. Confused about where to start, I have a modest suggestion; we can all start with ourselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOmY-cVnJJM&feature=related Francis On 15 Sep., 14:47, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > There is a feeling about that trust has collapsed in our societies. > Polls conducted over 60 years tend to show our levels of trust have > not, in fact declined, but that efficacy (meaning how effective we > feel in the world) has collapsed. I don't like trust as a concept - > we need rights. I feel almost completely let down in that we haven't > produced viable and honest democracy - having long resisted the view > that all politicians are the same version of self-interested scumbag, > I have come to think this is the sensible view and we need to extend > this view to a great deal more of of what happens in the day-today. I > want to try to avoid nasty views of other people in this and instead > see development in 'real time' public scrutiny and something worth > believing in. I would generally go with the postmodern notion that > grand-narratives of legitimation have collapsed. I think the notion > of being led by good people who act in ethical ways is such a grand- > narrative and flies in the face of what happens now and can been seen > as repetition of grisly history. One can choose to be pessimistic or > optimistic, yet this is really part of the problem of replacing > rationality by passion. > I think my contention is that trust in leadership is an anachronism > and this holds us back from developing social capital that would make > us less reliant on both the State we 'elect' and the Shadow State of > money power that is out of even this limited control. What we need is > a new understanding of freedom which allows us to act collectively in > a collective that structures our very freedom as individuals able to > act in better belief in what we know. I don't think we can afford > perfectionism in this - generally expressed in our history as > ideologies that sweep aside opposition in a means to ends philosophy > in which we never get the ends, only more of the means excused by the > 'dream'. > > I tend to think abstract thinking on such issues has been done and > really only shows us we can chatter forever about them whilst > remaining broadly feudal and clannish . We are still talking about > banks needing capital and other such economic claptrap, rather than > looking at how be resource a fairer society against a very different > form of productivity - that of producing sustainable, resilient > communities prepared to engage in mutual assurance - including how we > form transparent control that includes a balanced representation of > interests. My belief is we lack the faith needed to try to achieve > this, finding it easier to believe in religious fables including > current economic dogma - and most of this is about beating most of the > people down most of the time because reason is far too connected to > individual interest giving us no trust in outcomes supposedly based on > it. Complex schemes of public choice theories explicitly state this, > demanding we find ways to equate personal choice with public choice in > acceptance of the selfishness of decision. > > Anyone feel they have something simpler, somehow more cutting? On > offer to me, is being proud to be British, when I would rather we > split the country into three within Europe, leaving the pound and > bwanking to Greater London, and Greater Scotland to the oil and gas, a > currency (the Euro) without pictures of a German Royal Family on it > and the Midlands-Southwest to sensible farming and a Euro-based > manufacturing economy. Both new regions, now autonomous within the > Euro, would practice trade free of exploitation other than in the sale > of water to the South-East 'Sterling Zone'. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
