On 24 Sep, 14:11, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Pat noble dream and I really do hope you have found away.
> If you have I will support you all they way.
>
> sadly you are talking two groups of people whose leadership in only
> interested in personal agendas and nothing more.
> good luck...
> Allan
>
Yeah, it's a nasty part of my personality, I really see that area
of the world as problematic and can see many solutions, but none of
the 'people in charge' seem to be thinking about solutions. So, if I
present them in a book, and the ideas appeal to their respective
populations, they MAY be forced to cave-in to popular demand. The
problem with that is that the respective populations have their own
blood-feuds going on and some brave souls are going to have to lay
down their weapons first and then extend their hand in friendship.
Right now, they seen to have few reasons for doing that. Hopefully,
my book will give them plenty of reasons to do it.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 24 Sep, 04:57, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > God’s Purpose –Minds Eye
> > > Hi Pat!
> > > From what you are saying, you think that somewhere somehow religious
> > > people will one day come to an understanding of the present perilous
> > > religious situation and accept each other more openly, and in doing so
> > > they would avoid future fighting between religions?
> > > I really hope you are right Pat:
> > > But what I see here it is going to be very tricky indeed as you said
> > > yourself; so, how do you see this change of religious heart is going
> > > to start!?
> > > What is going to be the catalyst that will start these changes?
> > > Do you think that somebody somehow will come up with a theory, which
> > > finally will make sense to them all, and so, they will be able to see
> > > that they are one and the same thing, and that they all believe in the
> > > same God and therefore they should not be fighting each other?
> > > What sort of theory may be able to work just that?
> > > What would you say to that?
> > > Anyhow we have to wait and see I suppose.
> > > My regards
> > > Manfraco
>
> > Yes, I'm hoping that my own theory will serve as that basis. But,
> > of course, at the moment, it's still a Work-In-Progress. It only
> > takes a few people (as long as THEY are in a position to affect more)
> > to start the changes. My theory backs up both Jewish and Islamic (I
> > pick on these as it seems that the enmity between these is the basis
> > of much of the world's tensions) claims, but it takes an
> > interpretation that has not, yet, been presented to them. Abraham,
> > the 'father' of both these faiths deeply cared about both his children
> > and would be appalled that they are constantly at war with one
> > another. So, both need to be reminded that, not only are they letting
> > down the father of their own faiths but, in so doing, they are letting
> > down God and dragging the rest of the world through the mud they want
> > to sling at each other. So, we need to turn the hearts of these
> > 'children of Abraham' BACK to their father, Abraham, and, at the same
> > time, turn their hearts to their OWN children and ensure that the
> > hatred and enmity stops, or their own childrens' lives are at stake.
> > They must be shown that both ways are 'OK' with God therefore, how can
> > men have a probelm with them? What I need to do is get a few highly-
> > esteemed Imams and Rabbis together and have a long discussion with
> > them. But, that won't happen until my theories get published.
> > You see, I see that there's a huge problem (this enmity between Jews
> > and Moslems) and neither side wants to address it, so, I'm trying to
> > learn as much as I can about the deepest 'secrets/mysteries' of both
> > faiths and use THEM as arguments to end the enmity. That way, I can
> > present my theory in Islamic terms to Moslems and Jewish terms to
> > Jews, so that they can both have an understanding of their own role
> > and the role of the other. As I said, Abraham would be horrified by
> > his childrens' actions, perhaps not surprised (given that they largely
> > misunderstand one another) but horrified as they should be, as Isaac
> > and Ishmael were, i.e., completely reconciled.
>
> > > On Sep 21, 8:17 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On 16 Sep, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Thanks Pat for the information; I guess that you have visited the
> > > > > Middle East region personally. I wish I could visit Mt Sinai indeed,
> > > > > since I seem interested more and more in religions lately; but I can
> > > > > not see it happening in the near future.
> > > > > When I talk about policies, I want to talk about future religious
> > > > > policies, because I reckon that they are overdue now, people have
> > > > > changed since then, so religion needs to change too, so I wish that
> > > > > God (whatever God may be) causes something to happen that changes
> > will
> > > > > be made, even if those changes may not be universally approved by
> > > > > everybody. I am not saying here that old religions will be abolished,
> > > > > but rather that there will be a new chapter to add to the existing
> > > > > religions.
> > > > > I hope you see what I mean?
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Manfraco
>
> > > > Not only do I see what you mean, I already see that process
> > > > starting. If I'm right in my physical/religious theories, then we're
> > > > on the very verge of that update. The message will be pretty much the
> > > > same as before. That is, that morality, as presented in previous
> > > > revelations, will be validated. But there's going to have to be some
> > > > work done in order to DO that. And one of the first bits of that
> > > > work, I think, is to convince Orthodox Judaism that Islam is the
> > > > fulfilment of the Torah's statement (Genesis 17:20) that "As for
> > > > Ishmael...I will bless him..." and that 'that statement' is a
> > > > foreshadowing of a covenant between the 'God of Abraham' and Ishmael's
> > > > descendants, i.e., Islam via Muhammed. In return, Muslims need to
> > > > undertand that 'The God of Abraham' has no problem with people who
> > > > accept either of His covenants (Torah or Qur'an) and that, Muslims
> > > > should not bear a grudge against those who have accepted the Sinaitic
> > > > (Jewish) covenant. Such a re-understanding could lay the groundwork
> > > > for less enmity between the two peoples. But, of course, there will
> > > > be great resistance to this from both sides. And, there's still the
> > > > question of 'what to do about the Christians?', i.e., those who
> > > > believe that one covenant (the Sinaitic) has been superceded by a
> > > > philosophy with no direct revelation to support it. Tricky!!!
>
> > > > > On Sep 15, 9:24 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 15 Sep, 00:06, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Hi dj and everybody else!
> > > > > > > Yes indeed, Moses was a very thrilling character, what else could
> > he
> > > > > > > be, since he had seen the power of God very close at hand; so,
> > every
> > > > > > > time Moses is mentioned the masses are bound to tune in and be
> > > > > > > thrilled.
> > > > > > > I wander though whether Moses saw really God, up on Mount Sinai?
> > You
> > > > > > > know it does not explain clearly for me to be satisfied beyond
> > any
> > > > > > > doubts. Now God's purpose then was to help the Jews; but what's
> > God's
> > > > > > > purpose nowadays is still a mystery to me.
> > > > > > > I wish that God's purpose was to satisfy people needs, but it
> > doesn't
> > > > > > > seem that way at all; I wish that God would show up one day and
> > put
> > > > > > > forward policies about what we would like to have from Him,
> > instead of
> > > > > > > sitting on the fence and having fun at us all?
>
> > > > > > I would have thought that, the God of 'Mt. Sinai', i.e., 'The
> > God
> > > > > > of Abraham' has already listed his 'policies' in the Torah and/or
> > > > > > Qur'an, depending on whether one wants to adhere to the Isaac-side
> > > > > > covenant or the Ishael-side covenant. Why not go to 'Mt. Sinai'
> > > > > > yourself and see if you can meet up with God, there? The
> > particular
> > > > > > 'mountain' you want now goes by the name of 'Jebel Al-Madhbah' and
> > is
> > > > > > a part of the cluster of hills/mountains around Petra in Jordan.
> > The
> > > > > > 'Jebel Musa' (old Mount Catherine) was never Mt. Sinai, rather, it
> > was
> > > > > > suspected because it's the highest peak in the Sinai peninsula.
> > But,
> > > > > > if you read the description of the approach to 'Mt. Sinai' in
> > Exodus,
> > > > > > it perfectly describes 'Jebel Al-Madhbah' including the bluish
> > stone
> > > > > > (sapphire, in Exodus) and the obelisks found in the 'nether region'
> > of
> > > > > > the mountain, as well as the 'High Place' itself. Not to mention
> > that
> > > > > > the 'Ain Musa', the spring of Moses, is just outside the entrance
> > to
> > > > > > Petra, just where it was described in Exodus.
>
> > > > > > > On Sep 14, 4:54 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Ah, yes. My favorite part in that movie was when Moses says
> > "You can
> > > > > > > > have these tablets when you take them from my cold, dead
> > hands!"
> > > > > > > > Thrilling!
>
> > > > > > > > dj
>
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Molly Brogan <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > I don't agree with that. I think it is the greatest story
> > ever told
> > > > > > > > > (not original, I know.) But read and you will find myriad
> > > > > > > > > interpretations of the bible. It wasn't until I was able to
> > read it
> > > > > > > > > for myself, and feel the stories alive in me, that I
> > understood the
> > > > > > > > > greatness of the stories.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 3:34 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Adam the bible is interesting but mostly fiction and or
> > twisted ideas ...
> > > > > > > > >> etc etc
> > > > > > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Adam <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >> > OK. If the Bible is true, then I think I have given a good
> > summary of
> > > > > > > > >> > how things are.
> > > > > > > > >> > If not, then it doesn't matter anyway. I posted this same
> > article on
> > > > > > > > >> > alt.bible.prophecy
> > > > > > > > >> > and got only one reply, and that was abusive. And they are
> > supposed to
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
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