All too complicated for a sap like me.
On 24 Sep, 18:32, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> “No, Neil, the purpose is not failure. The purpose is yours ; the
> failure is in the way the universe is. If one is force, the other is
> reaction ... and the two do not equate.” – vam
>
> Again, I may not be grokking…and, trialectically, for cyclical
> existence, there is an action, a reaction (with a function…of unity)
> and a result. Ichazo has codified this.
>
> On Sep 24, 7:11 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > " If the purpose is failure Vam ... "
>
> > Ah, Lord, the language !
>
> > No, Neil, the purpose is not failure. The purpose is yours ; the
> > failure is in the way the universe is. If one is force, the other is
> > reaction ... and the two do not equate.
>
> > On Sep 24, 3:14 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > If the purpose is failure Vam, I've played in some teams who were very
> > > good at it! I find I even fail in my dreams. Currently I'm stuck with
> > > 'relativity travel', which at least puts the universe up to the
> > > expansion horizon within a lifetime's reach, potentially letting us
> > > reek our failure in the vastness on a material basis. Once purpose is
> > > failure, then logically one can succeed at it, rather making the mess
> > > of being a successful failure. The Grand Old Duke of York, He had Ten
> > > Thousand Men, He Marched Them Up to the Top of the Hill, And He
> > > Marched Them Down Again. All much better than fighting. Took me
> > > years to know.
>
> > > On 24 Sep, 06:09, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > History informs us that there isn't much that can be done to
> > > > obliterate the differentials along the evolution curve, on which
> > > > individuals are placed ! That is how the diversity is ( manifest
> > > > and ) here in the first place. Jesus spoke of the same unity /
> > > > identity. Sufis have been at it since a millenium. Sikhs have been
> > > > reading and hearing of it for some centuries now. Indians have had it
> > > > several millenia ago.
>
> > > > But history also has a place for individuals who'd put in the effort
> > > > nevetheless, who'd try one more time to push and roll the stone up to
> > > > the hilltop. Failure is assured, overall. However, even the local
> > > > success is dazzling enough to halt everyone in their tracks for a
> > > > moment ... bathe everyone in the light which will never be forgotten,
> > > > if not abided by.
>
> > > > The attempt is the noblest human beings are capable of.
>
> > > > All of which is from my perspective and value - system. ' Conditions
> > > > Apply.'
>
> > > > On Sep 24, 8:57 am, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > God’s Purpose –Minds Eye
> > > > > Hi Pat!
> > > > > From what you are saying, you think that somewhere somehow religious
> > > > > people will one day come to an understanding of the present perilous
> > > > > religious situation and accept each other more openly, and in doing so
> > > > > they would avoid future fighting between religions?
> > > > > I really hope you are right Pat:
> > > > > But what I see here it is going to be very tricky indeed as you said
> > > > > yourself; so, how do you see this change of religious heart is going
> > > > > to start!?
> > > > > What is going to be the catalyst that will start these changes?
> > > > > Do you think that somebody somehow will come up with a theory, which
> > > > > finally will make sense to them all, and so, they will be able to see
> > > > > that they are one and the same thing, and that they all believe in the
> > > > > same God and therefore they should not be fighting each other?
> > > > > What sort of theory may be able to work just that?
> > > > > What would you say to that?
> > > > > Anyhow we have to wait and see I suppose.
> > > > > My regards
> > > > > Manfraco
>
> > > > > On Sep 21, 8:17 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 16 Sep, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Thanks Pat for the information; I guess that you have visited the
> > > > > > > Middle East region personally. I wish I could visit Mt Sinai
> > > > > > > indeed,
> > > > > > > since I seem interested more and more in religions lately; but I
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > not see it happening in the near future.
> > > > > > > When I talk about policies, I want to talk about future religious
> > > > > > > policies, because I reckon that they are overdue now, people have
> > > > > > > changed since then, so religion needs to change too, so I wish
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > God (whatever God may be) causes something to happen that changes
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > be made, even if those changes may not be universally approved by
> > > > > > > everybody. I am not saying here that old religions will be
> > > > > > > abolished,
> > > > > > > but rather that there will be a new chapter to add to the existing
> > > > > > > religions.
> > > > > > > I hope you see what I mean?
> > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > Manfraco
>
> > > > > > Not only do I see what you mean, I already see that process
> > > > > > starting. If I'm right in my physical/religious theories, then
> > > > > > we're
> > > > > > on the very verge of that update. The message will be pretty much
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > same as before. That is, that morality, as presented in previous
> > > > > > revelations, will be validated. But there's going to have to be
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > work done in order to DO that. And one of the first bits of that
> > > > > > work, I think, is to convince Orthodox Judaism that Islam is the
> > > > > > fulfilment of the Torah's statement (Genesis 17:20) that "As for
> > > > > > Ishmael...I will bless him..." and that 'that statement' is a
> > > > > > foreshadowing of a covenant between the 'God of Abraham' and
> > > > > > Ishmael's
> > > > > > descendants, i.e., Islam via Muhammed. In return, Muslims need to
> > > > > > undertand that 'The God of Abraham' has no problem with people who
> > > > > > accept either of His covenants (Torah or Qur'an) and that, Muslims
> > > > > > should not bear a grudge against those who have accepted the
> > > > > > Sinaitic
> > > > > > (Jewish) covenant. Such a re-understanding could lay the groundwork
> > > > > > for less enmity between the two peoples. But, of course, there will
> > > > > > be great resistance to this from both sides. And, there's still the
> > > > > > question of 'what to do about the Christians?', i.e., those who
> > > > > > believe that one covenant (the Sinaitic) has been superceded by a
> > > > > > philosophy with no direct revelation to support it. Tricky!!!
>
> > > > > > > On Sep 15, 9:24 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On 15 Sep, 00:06, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Hi dj and everybody else!
> > > > > > > > > Yes indeed, Moses was a very thrilling character, what else
> > > > > > > > > could he
> > > > > > > > > be, since he had seen the power of God very close at hand;
> > > > > > > > > so, every
> > > > > > > > > time Moses is mentioned the masses are bound to tune in and be
> > > > > > > > > thrilled.
> > > > > > > > > I wander though whether Moses saw really God, up on Mount
> > > > > > > > > Sinai? You
> > > > > > > > > know it does not explain clearly for me to be satisfied
> > > > > > > > > beyond any
> > > > > > > > > doubts. Now God's purpose then was to help the Jews; but
> > > > > > > > > what's God's
> > > > > > > > > purpose nowadays is still a mystery to me.
> > > > > > > > > I wish that God's purpose was to satisfy people needs, but it
> > > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > seem that way at all; I wish that God would show up one day
> > > > > > > > > and put
> > > > > > > > > forward policies about what we would like to have from Him,
> > > > > > > > > instead of
> > > > > > > > > sitting on the fence and having fun at us all?
>
> > > > > > > > I would have thought that, the God of 'Mt. Sinai', i.e.,
> > > > > > > > 'The God
> > > > > > > > of Abraham' has already listed his 'policies' in the Torah
> > > > > > > > and/or
> > > > > > > > Qur'an, depending on whether one wants to adhere to the
> > > > > > > > Isaac-side
> > > > > > > > covenant or the Ishael-side covenant. Why not go to 'Mt. Sinai'
> > > > > > > > yourself and see if you can meet up with God, there? The
> > > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > 'mountain' you want now goes by the name of 'Jebel Al-Madhbah'
> > > > > > > > and is
> > > > > > > > a part of the cluster of hills/mountains around Petra in
> > > > > > > > Jordan. The
> > > > > > > > 'Jebel Musa' (old Mount Catherine) was never Mt. Sinai, rather,
> > > > > > > > it was
> > > > > > > > suspected because it's the highest peak in the Sinai peninsula.
> > > > > > > > But,
> > > > > > > > if you read the description of the approach to 'Mt. Sinai' in
> > > > > > > > Exodus,
> > > > > > > > it perfectly describes 'Jebel Al-Madhbah' including the bluish
> > > > > > > > stone
> > > > > > > > (sapphire, in Exodus) and the obelisks found in the 'nether
> > > > > > > > region' of
> > > > > > > > the mountain, as well as the 'High Place' itself. Not to
> > > > > > > > mention that
> > > > > > > > the 'Ain Musa', the spring of Moses, is just outside the
> > > > > > > > entrance to
> > > > > > > > Petra, just where it was described in Exodus.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sep 14, 4:54 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Ah, yes. My favorite part in that movie was when Moses
> > > > > > > > > > says "You can
> > > > > > > > > > have these tablets when you take them from my cold, dead
> > > > > > > > > > hands!"
> > > > > > > > > > Thrilling!
>
> > > > > > > > > > dj
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Molly Brogan
> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't agree with that. I think it is the greatest
> > > > > > > > > > > story ever told
> > > > > > > > > > > (not original, I know.) But read and you will find myriad
> > > > > > > > > > > interpretations of the bible. It wasn't until I was able
> > > > > > > > > > > to read it
> > > > > > > > > > > for myself, and feel the stories alive in me, that I
> > > > > > > > > > > understood the
> > > > > > > > > > > greatness of the stories.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 3:34 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> Adam the bible is interesting but mostly fiction and or
> > > > > > > > > > >> twisted ideas ...
> > > > > > > > > > >> etc etc
> > > > > > > > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:27
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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