Great point, rigsy. The structure of government and function of leadership of any group should be determined by its developmental needs. I think what Chomsky is calling for is more purity in democracy, less corruption, more voice for citizens and organizational opportunities for subgroups. Democracy in the true spirit of democracy. The challenge, is to create a form that will serve the top and bottom levels of development for citizens, those self motivating and sustaining, those not. Chomsky's view isn't new but it is timely. The American transcendental poets each spoke of individuality, freedom, citizenship and the mandates of democracy and were a big influence on the politics of their time.
Souvenirs of Democracy. by Walt Whitman THE business man, the acquirer vast, After assiduous years, surveying results, preparing for departure, Devises houses and lands to his children—bequeaths stocks, goods—funds for a school or hospital, Leaves money to certain companions to buy tokens, souvenirs of gems and gold; Parceling out with care—And then, to prevent all cavil, His name to his testament formally signs. But I, my life surveying, With nothing to show, to devise, from its idle years, Nor houses, nor lands—nor tokens of gems or gold for my friends, Only these Souvenirs of Democracy—In them—in all my songs—behind me leaving, To You, who ever you are, (bathing, leavening this leaf especially with my breath—pressing on it a moment with my own hands; —Here! feel how the pulse beats in my wrists!—how my heart’s-blood is swelling, contracting!) I will You, in all, Myself, with promise to never desert you, To which I sign my name. On Oct 2, 12:00 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Citizens can be content in empires and monarchies, as well, if there > is peace and security, fair taxation and laws, accepted social strata > and freedoms, etc. A vote doesn't mean much if you are saddled with a > corrupt government/politicians and call it a democracy, republic or > the city council. And if nations decide to defeat trade rivals by > unfair practices, they are probably asking for wars/war monger > dictators who appeal to the basic needs/wants/resentments of their own > citizens. > > On Oct 1, 10:20 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Exactly the issue Neil…’we’ cause the problems and on many different > > levels. However, I’m not sure it is due to lack of democracy…not > > saying this is not the cause, just not sure. > > > The ‘old’ unions had their function and arose in a different time > > based upon specific needs. All such things change. And is it really a > > mystery as to why specific characters arose to power? I’m not sure > > this is a puzzle at all. > > > On Oct 1, 3:44 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Indeed Orn - there is definitely a baby in this bathwater. I would > > > hope never again to experience the 'Zil Chill' of the former Soviet > > > states or the grim feelings I've had elsewhere away from these shores, > > > though we need to understand we cause many of these problems by > > > failing to achieve more democracy. I'm an old union man, but don't > > > want to see a return of the old unions - however, a new form of > > > insured representation for all is possible. If 'democracy' could > > > produce Hitler we need to know why and how - even Mugabe was once > > > voted in for real. > > > > On 1 Oct, 17:41, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > As critical as I am of the ‘democracy’ that I know, mostly with the > > > > intention of retaining and/or improving it, I am quite thankful that > > > > this lifetime was not spent in Cambodia or other such countries. The > > > > current experiment is preferable when a comparison to what is is > > > > conducted. And, when compared to the codified words “…in order to form > > > > a more perfect union…”, the ongoing process is seen and must be > > > > recognized. I do. > > > > > On Oct 1, 9:26 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > We like to think of the UK Parliament as the 'mother of parliaments'. > > > > > We are much the same in sport - always resting on our history of > > > > > inventing the games others now beat us at! Most civilised countries > > > > > seem more democratic than Britain, but I only ever visit or live in > > > > > them as an alien. In France, in the late 70's I discovered my > > > > > illusions were just that as police and troops laid waste to a shanty > > > > > town with bulldozers and I found out how casual labour was treated (I > > > > > was undercover on a drugs bust). The US has always seemed so much > > > > > more democratic with all kinds of elections we don't have - yet it > > > > > generally is not. > > > > > I actually find a lot not to like about democracy - the Athenian one > > > > > had a privileged Demos and practised ethnic cleansing of an economic > > > > > kind we see in Domesday Books all over the world - and there are > > > > > obvious problems such as asking the uninformed to make decisions. > > > > > This latter is a key problem as it lets in charisma and all the old > > > > > techniques of persuasion because we can always rely on the majority > > > > > not to be able to follow the argument. The Germans were probably the > > > > > best educated, most scientific, most cultured people on the planet > > > > > when they voted for Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler may have seized > > > > > power illegitimately, but Germans voted for him in droves in elections > > > > > around the country. Other countries had their own Nazis in > > > > > considerable numbers. We will vote for any dross - this should make > > > > > us rethink democracy. > > > > > > On 1 Oct, 17:00, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Sadly, I couldn’t get tickets to hear Noam here in Portland this > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > And, I have found that he gets much of what you say we should fear > > > > > > right Neil. He just isn’t quite as charismatic in his brand of > > > > > > ‘evangelism’ as some though. > > > > > > > I fear we in the Colonies are at the cusp of yet another Civil War… > > > > > > only not so ‘Civil’. The ‘best’ political action my disillusioned > > > > > > brain can imagine at this time, other than a true ‘new’ tea party, > > > > > > is > > > > > > to fulfill the ancient cry of ‘Throw the bums out!’. I was skeptical > > > > > > about the actuality of the BO regime from the start and now that the > > > > > > ‘party in power’ has vetoed health care for we the people and has > > > > > > reinvested in the demonstrated failed practice of sexual abstinence > > > > > > as > > > > > > well as a continued hegemony, it really is time for change. > > > > > > Eisenhower > > > > > > was much wiser. > > > > > > > As a sort of Paul Revere of the day, I call upon ‘we the people’ to > > > > > > see that every political person in power is replaced...with 3rd > > > > > > party > > > > > > individuals if possible. There is no other way to gain political > > > > > > attention today. This even though I fully embrace Noam’s notion of > > > > > > Anarchy: > > > > > > > “…Anarchism, in my view, is an expression of the idea that the > > > > > > burden > > > > > > of proof is always on those who argue that authority and domination > > > > > > are necessary. They have to demonstrate, with powerful argument, > > > > > > that > > > > > > that conclusion is correct. If they cannot, then the institutions > > > > > > they > > > > > > defend should be considered illegitimate. How one should react to > > > > > > illegitimate authority depends on circumstances and conditions: > > > > > > there > > > > > > are no formulas. …” – Chomsky > > > > > > > (more at:http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19961223.htm) > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 7:24 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chomsky has been right for many years. The academy in which he > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > others flourished is long gone - we are all, at our relative > > > > > > > levels of > > > > > > > ability in the margins as resistance fighters. I would put the > > > > > > > argument personally given limited space. An old guy (undoubtedly > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > 'comrade') turned up at our door a couple of days ago. Sue and I > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > died in the wool lefties and he was asking if Labour could rely > > > > > > > on our > > > > > > > vote. I didn't want to upset the old chap. Our MP isn't fit for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > job, our councillors useless, almost childish. Britain is broken > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > there is no system worth voting in. We'd like to be able to vote > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > space for radical reform for the establishment of actual > > > > > > > democracy. > > > > > > > We're nearly 60 years old, let down by false promises and the > > > > > > > default > > > > > > > return of business as usual however we vote. We are at war and > > > > > > > can't > > > > > > > even vote against this. Etc. etc. ... even the old 'sense' of a > > > > > > > pragmatic choice in a dirty world doesn't work on us - this was > > > > > > > part > > > > > > > of the broken promises. It's conference season here, with a > > > > > > > general > > > > > > > election coming in 6 months. The old dross is rolled out by all. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > Prime Minister's wife makes a speech blessing him as 'her hero' - > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > only indication I can draw from this is the public is still > > > > > > > regarded > > > > > > > as gullible and pathetic. > > > > > > > > The job is one of anarchy - the tearing down of the lies on 'free > > > > > > > trade'. 'democracy' and so on - but the aim is not anarchy > > > > > > > (strictly > > > > > > > meaning leaderlessness) - it's about new construction free of the > > > > > > > chronic fears we have about each other. What Chomsky isn't good > > > > > > > on is > > > > > > > recognising much we should be fearful of - crap worlds of the > > > > > > > veil, > > > > > > > 'dumb idealism', the ease in which tyranny can establish unless > > > > > > > we get > > > > > > > armed services and policing right, 'dumb meritocracy' and so on. > > > > > > > I saw the NATO speech on Afghanistan today - the general could > > > > > > > almost > > > > > > > have been a sociologist in explaining how 'our' (not in my name) > > > > > > > actions rub against Afghan culture. Building a well in the wrong > > > > > > > place with the wrong labour leads to changes in the balance of > > > > > > > power, > > > > > > > killing two insurgents may lead to another ten joining up for > > > > > > > revenge. Is any of this surprising when our own legal systems > > > > > > > favour > > > > > > > the rich, exclude most of us from justice and can't even free > > > > > > > disabled > > > > > > > people from local 'terrorists' who bully them to suicide? Much of > > > > > > > this was discussed by Hobbes and Thomas Moore. How many coups > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > as temporary takeovers that will bring democracy (the > > > > > > > dictatorship of > > > > > > > the proletariat syndrome)? How did 'democracy' as we might > > > > > > > grudgingly > > > > > > > admit to take root? Not by watching television and playing video > > > > > > > games. > > > > > > > > If I finish my books and they sell well, what will I do? Get > > > > > > > myself a > > > > > > > 'stable of broads', flash cars and learn to fiddle in the comfort > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > watching the world burn from my comfort away from it all? I want > > > > > > > none > > > > > > > of such 'success' - though know its temptations. Many live in > > > > > > > conditions where much more minor temptations can be used to effect > > > > > > > 'revolution'. I would rather die than be the white man on the > > > > > > > beach > > > > > > > in Kenya forking out a few dollars for sex with a local child. In > > > > > > > fact, I don't have to travel far to discover this 'down the > > > > > > > road', or > > > > > > > in the actions of those defending Polanski. Polanski gets a bevy > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > lawyers, the kid he raped at 13 did not get help when > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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