It's OK for you to think as you do, Allan !  And, it's OK too for me
not to think as you do.

I've nothing against BO. In fact, it feels good it is he on the stage
instead of Bush, and I certainly wish he succeeds at what he 's
promised to pursue and deliver.

Only, I see no purpose is served in concluding too soon. And, I see no
reason whatsoever for going ga - ga over BO, from what I've observed
so far.

On Oct 12, 12:33 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Vam sometimes I think you walk with your eyes closed because you do not want
> to see. One thing I see happening he is dissolving the school yard bully
> mentality that was so deeply installed by the Bush mentality,  bringing into
> play a genuine desire for Peace that is something that is desperately needed
> by this world to day.
>
> "I see said the blind man but he did not see at all!"
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thank you, OM !  The quotes are grim reminders of ourself and of
> > irrational power structures rooted in our mass ignorance.
> > I see all this sing - a - song ga - ga paen to BO as being symptomatic
> > of much the same, albeit a ' feel good ' one.
>
> > What we need be doing is not to suspend our critical eye and to
> > continue to ask : BO ... who ?
>
> > What has he done ?  What is he doing ?  What does it bode for our
> > future ?  There are some positives, in terms of what he's said he
> > represents.  But, at the end of the day, we are still to find out if
> > did it all lead to causing more trust, goodwill, security, hope,
> > transparency, fraternity, simplicity, joy and happiness ... ?
>
> > Did it take us closer to reconciliation of people who are merely
> > different, who merely have different perspectives, who are either
> > violent ( for reasons of their own ) or are facing the violent ( for
> > no rhyme or reason ) ?
>
> > Did we end up changing the world, its global power structures,
> > thoughts, beliefs and attitudes, resource management priorities and
> > poverty management practices ?
>
> > Did we come to strengthen and orient our global institutions towards
> > voices of the different, small, poor and weak people among us ?
>
> > Have we better assured ourselves from all the violence potential in
> > the arms stockpiles, ideology wars, global warmimg, military -
> > industrial - economic cliques ... ?
>
> > Have we brought the interests of the common global citizen to our
> > collective fore ?
>
> > The day we have some positive answers and evidence to back up, that
> > would be the day to let BO know how we see his life and his work !
> > The rest is either religious fervour or political subtlety.
>
> > On Oct 11, 5:15 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > PEACE:
>
> > > “They who have put out the people’s eyes reproach them of their
> > > blindness.” - John Milton, 1642.
>
> > > The Third Reich was very effective in many ways. I think we have much
> > > to learn from their rhetoric which, when analyzed, can be quite
> > > instructive. Much of it points directly to the methodology used
> > > globally ever since. Without an understanding of how leaders
> > > manufacture consent, we are doomed to repeating the human frailty of
> > > susceptibility to nationalistic appetites and we will never have the
> > > clarity of mind, emotion and will to be able to demand the peace which
> > > is our absolute right. – OM
>
> > > From a conversation with Herman Goering (a German politician, military
> > > leader and a leading member of the Nazi Party) in his cell at the
> > > Nuremberg trials 4/18/1946 found in ‘Nurenberg Diary’, a book by
> > > Gustave Gilbert who was an intelligence officer and psychologist
> > > granted free access by the Allies to all prisoners held in the
> > > Nurenberg jail:
>
> > > ======www.snopes.com=====
>
> > > “Why, of course, the people don’t want war,” Goering shrugged “Why
> > > would some poor slob on a farm risk his life in a war when the best he
> > > can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally,
> > > the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor
> > > in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But,
> > > after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy
> > > and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it
> > > is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a
> > > Communist dictatorship.”
>
> > > “There is one difference,” I [Gilbert] pointed out. “In a democracy
> > > the people have some say in the matter through their elected
> > > representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare
> > > wars.”
>
> > > [Goering] “Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the
> > > people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is
> > > easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
> > > denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
> > > to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
>
> > > ======
>
> > > JOSEPH GOEBBELS - a German politician and Reichsminister of Propaganda
> > > in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.
>
> > > "...the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine.
> > > Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and
> > > repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no
> > > success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind
> > > constantly...it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them
> > > over and over." – Joseph Goebbels
>
> > > “During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than
> > > information." – Joseph Goebbels
>
> > > "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
> > > eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
> > > time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
> > > and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
> > > important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent,
> > > for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension,
> > > the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." – Joseph Goebbels
>
> > > “Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for
> > > every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its
> > > roots in the street.” – Joseph Goebbels
>
> > > "It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of
> > > public opinion." – Joseph Goebbels
>
> > > =====
>
> > > Quotes from the movie “Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the
> > > Media”  www.IMDB.Com
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: The point is that in a military state or a feudal state,
> > > or what you would nowadays call a totalitarian state, it doesn't much
> > > matter what people think, because you've got a legend over there that
> > > you can control what they do. But when the state looses legend, and
> > > you can't control people by force. And when the voice of the people
> > > can be heard you have this problem, it may make people so curious and
> > > so arrogant that they don't have the humility to submit to a civil
> > > rule. And therefore you have to control what people think.
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked.
> > > So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're
> > > in favor of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise.
> > > Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech.
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: There's maybe twenty percent of the population that is
> > > relatively educated, more or less articulate, that play some kind of
> > > role in decision making. They're supposed to participate in social
> > > life either as managers, or cultural managers, like say, teachers,
> > > writers and so on. They're supposed to vote. They're supposed to play
> > > some role in the way economic, political and cultural life goes on.
> > > Now they're consent is crucial. It's one group that has to be deeply
> > > indoctrinated. Then there's maybe eighty percent of the population
> > > whose main function is to follow orders and not to think.
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: When the state looses the bludgeon... you have to
> > > control what people think. And the standard way to do this is to
> > > resort to what in more honest days used to be called propaganda.
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: There's nothing more remote from what we have been
> > > discussing than a conspiracy theory. If I give an analysis of, say the
> > > economic system, and I point out that GM tries to maximize profit and
> > > market share - that's not a conspiracy theory; that's an institutional
> > > analysis. It has nothing to do with conspiracies. That's precisely the
> > > sense in which we've been talking about the media. The phrase
> > > "conspiracy theory" is one of those that's constantly brought up, and
> > > I think it's effect simply is to discourage institutional analysis.
>
> > > Noam Chomsky: Suppose I get on "Nightline". I'm given two minutes and
> > > I say Quaddafi is a terrorist or Khomeini is a murderer... I don't
> > > need any evidence, everybody just nods. On the other hand, suppose you
> > > say something that just isn't regurgitating conventional pieties...
> > > Suppose you say  "The biggest international terror operations that are
> > > known are the ones that are run out of Washington", or suppose, you
> > > say "What happened in the 1980s is the US government was driven
> > > underground", suppose I say "The US is invading South Vietnam," as it
> > > was, or "The best political leaders are the ones that are lazy and
> > > corrupt", "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war
> > > american president would have been hanged.", "The Bible is one of the
> > > most genocidal books in the total canon.", "Education is a system of
> > > imposed ignorance", "There is no more morality in world affairs,
> > > fundamentally, then there was at the time of Genghis Khan..." People
> > > will, quite reasonably, expect to know what you mean. Why did you say
> > > that ?... You'd better have a lot of evidence... But you can't give
> > > evidence if you're stuck with concision. That's the genius of this
> > > structural contraint. And in my view, people from Nightline and so on,
> > > if they were smarter, if they were better propagandists, they would
> > > let dissidents on, let them on more in
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to