Thats the thing with evidance given in a court. At times evidance will be given by those of dubious charector, and then of course the defense will tend to concentrate not on disproving this evidance but instead on bringing into disrepute the charector of the person giveing the evidance. This is blatantly wrong, I mean moraly wrong, yet it does work. However to assume right from the start that a criminal can not give honest evidance does seem strange to me.
You are correct the factor in all of this is the jury. Neither Judge, nor barristers know exactly what the intelect level of the jury is, nor how they will decide, nor what effect any of the evidance heard will have on them. In the case I heard the other month it took us a week to finish our deliberations and that was simply down to some other members of the jury beliving the type of charector assination of one of the witnesses, and so disregarding all that he had to say, dispite the evidance he gave being corrobarated by other sources. All in all though, to be tried by a jury of your peers, still seems to me the correct way to do things. On 7 Dec, 04:39, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't care whether Knox is a Yank or not. I wouldn't trust what a > crook like Guede said and it seems remarkable anyone did after he > changed his story. The British system is probably 'as bad or as dire' > as the Italian one and mistakes are being made all over the place. > There is an IQ-related problem with juries and our politics (Slips use > of HL Mencken a while back sums that up well). We don't know what > actually influenced the jury - but I begin to wonder whether any of us > is safe from the 'system'. > > On 7 Dec, 03:29, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi SD! > > Your patriotism is blinding you Slip! And leave my wife out of this > > ok! Usually you are spot on, but not this time, because somebody must > > pay for that horrible crime, and if it is one from your country it > > makes no difference. > > Manfraco > > > On Dec 7, 1:01 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Amanda Knox has been called the devil with blue eyes from the Italian > > > > media, so there must be a lot going on that we don't know; this makes > > > > me wonder whether one should learn about her extended family whether > > > > they use their very strong personality to overrule other people. <<MFE > > > > That is totally and utterly ridiculous! > > > The media calls someone a devil and so there must be more going on > > > that we don't know about? sic! > > > You actually buy into the media hype and sheer bullshit? > > > If anyone is guilty it is your wife, who is guilty of judgment. There > > > are too many variables and inconsistencies to pass judgment on this > > > case. We can only present possibilities. If the Italian court system > > > had it right there wouldn't be any international disagreement with > > > their judicial system. I'm extremely hopeful that I will never be on > > > trial but if ever I am I will be equally hopeful that there aren't any > > > people on the jury like your wife who thinks she can pass judgment > > > based on following a case through media reporting. That's pathetic! > > > > On Dec 6, 5:16 pm, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody! > > > > Amanda Knox has been called the devil with blue eyes from the Italian > > > > media, so there must be a lot going on that we don't know; this makes > > > > me wonder whether one should learn about her extended family whether > > > > they use their very strong personality to overrule other people. > > > > My wife has followed this murder case, and in her own simple ways > > > > believes that Amanda Knox may very well be guilty. > > > > I am pretty sure that the Italian court is right they took a very long > > > > time to get it right, therefore if in the future nobody of the three > > > > people involved co fesses of the murder, things are just the way the > > > > court has said. > > > > Just because she is an American girl doesn't mean she is innocent. > > > > Just forget the American bit the law is the same for everybody. > > > > My regards to you all > > > > Manfraco > > > > > On Dec 7, 9:26 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > There are several problems, one being the level of understanding in > > > > > jury pools, ie; the IQ factor. There is much more emphasis put on > > > > > "convincing" than actually proving guilt or innocence. Not to mention > > > > > the elevation of prosecutors to district attorneys to mayor, governor, > > > > > senate seat, congress and possible presidential seat. Its scary to us > > > > > but people that crave these positions don't really care how they get > > > > > there. Further more it is completely obvious that the vindication of > > > > > hundreds of convicts and death row inmates reveals the ugly truth > > > > > about the "justice?" system and all it's flaws. > > > > > > On Dec 6, 12:11 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > There are too many frightening miscarriages in our legal systems. > > > > > > Easy enough to make thing thing 'Italian' - yet here we have had > > > > > > plenty and even in Texas people are worrying about the death > > > > > > sentence > > > > > > because of so much uncertainty about convicting the right people. > > > > > > > On 6 Dec, 16:44, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm always suspect of criminal types changing stories and plea > > > > > > > bargain > > > > > > > deals with overzealous prosecutors. > > > > > > > It might be likely that Rudy killed her because she didn't want, > > > > > > > or no > > > > > > > longer wanted to have any relation with him. It won't be the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > deal made by someone trying to get a lessor sentence. 25 years > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > lot better than Life in prison for a 20 year old. At 45 he'll > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > be able to have a life. > > > > > > > > Guede came to Perugia at the age of five with his father,[57] > > > > > > > Pacome > > > > > > > Roger Guede.[58] His father left Italy when Guede was 16, and he > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > informally adopted by the family of a wealthy local businessman, > > > > > > > Paolo > > > > > > > Caporali.[57] Caporali stated that he had been disappointed by > > > > > > > Guede's > > > > > > > behaviour, describing him as a "tremendous liar", skipping school > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > being reluctant to do any work. > > > > > > > > DNA tests indicate that Guede had sex with Kercher before her > > > > > > > murder > > > > > > > [59] and that faeces found in the toilet were his.[60] > > > > > > > > Knox has confirmed meeting Guede a few times. Guede has been > > > > > > > described > > > > > > > as a drug dealer and a thief. > > > > > > > > So here we have a guy who had sex with the victim just before the > > > > > > > murder and who then "Conveniently" claims to have been listening > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > his ipod when Knox and Sollecito came home. > > > > > > > > It might be that Rudy raped Kercher, she threatened to call the > > > > > > > police, he choked her and then slit her throat followed by a > > > > > > > elaborate > > > > > > > "lie" that would unfortunately ensnare two innocent people. He > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > fled the country. > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 11:31 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The evidence as reported by The Telegraph is very thin and Rudy > > > > > > > > actually told someone she wasn't there at the time of the > > > > > > > > murder, > > > > > > > > before changing his story. > > > > > > > > > On 6 Dec, 03:49, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > With their wise and terribly straight leader I can > > > > > > > > > understand why the press are so biased. It's a good thing > > > > > > > > > there was no > > > > > > > > > double standard. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 9:53 pm > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Amanda Knox > > > > > > > > > > To shed some light....... > > > > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher > > > > > > > > > > Now you see the Black Rudy had fled to Germany after the > > > > > > > > > murder and > > > > > > > > > was extradited to Italy, but why did he flee? > > > > > > > > > The conflicting stories create such a confusion that the only > > > > > > > > > logical > > > > > > > > > thing to do is lock them all up. No? > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 9:19 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The case seemed forever in the news, yet I know nothing of > > > > > > > > > > the actual > > > > > > > > > > case. I am not familiar with cartwheeling as a means of > > > > > > > > > > lie detection > > > > > > > > > > - clearly advanced forensics. Has my veracity increased > > > > > > > > > > now I am > > > > > > > > > > incapable of them, perhaps, other than as some would say, > > > > > > > > > > in argument > > > > > > > > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > > On 5 Dec, 11:26, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what to think of it but one thing is for > > > > > > > > > > > sure, someone > > > > > > > > > > > was murdered and she didn't slice her own throat. The > > > > > > > > > > > Ivory coast > > > > > > > > > > > black guy has a criminal history and admits being there > > > > > > > > > > > while the > > > > > > > > > > > other two claim to have been somewhere else watching a > > > > > > > > > > > movie before > > > > > > > > > > > returning to the apartment. The DNA on the knife was > > > > > > > > > > > supposedly too > > > > > > > > > > > scant to be reliable, however, I'd like to know why it > > > > > > > > > > > was washed with > > > > > > > > > > > bleach, but then I wonder why anyone would kill someone > > > > > > > > > > > and then take > > > > > > > > > > > the knife home instead of tossing it out somewhere, then > > > > > > > > > > > again maybe > > > > > > > > > > > she used it to cut up a tomato. It's a very complex case > > > > > > > > > > > with many > > > > > > > > > > > loose ends and speculation. The Italian judicial system > > > > > > > > > > > surely needs > > > > > > > > > > > overhaul with special attention to due process. Something > > > > > > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > > > > terribly wrong at some point and hopefully one or all > > > > > > > > > > > three sooner or > > > > > > > > > > > later will confess to the actual truth. They each have a > > > > > > > > > > > long time to > > > > > > > > > > > think it over. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 4:09 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone any idea at all whether this American girl > > > > > > > > > > > > is guilty of > > > > > > > > > > > > murder or not? She is guilty of trying to pin it on > > > > > > > > > > > > the nearest black > > > > > > > > > > > > guy and, apparently of doing cartwheels in a police > > > > > > > > > > > > station. Our > > > > > > > > > > > > media has told us she is good looking (passable average > > > > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > > > footage), there was some of her DNA on a kitchen knife > > > > > > > > > > > > and that's it > > > > > > > > > > > > apart from a pile of hints at 'sex scandal'. There has > > > > > > > > > > > > been no > > > > > > > > > > > > reporting of any evidence. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > > > > > > > Google Groups > > > > > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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