Science is probably ontologically relativistic and epistemologically empiricist. Something is lost in the practice, but I'm not sure Alan has put his finger on it above. The pointer though, does often waggle over this direction though, more often than not.
On 23 Jan, 21:52, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Falling out of trees and off bikes and horses and almost getting eaten > by a pissed off cow during a failed 'cow-tipping' episode are all part > of a young boys growing up process. Eating the mushrooms found in cow > shit piles is form of Russian roulette I don't recommend to anyone. > Even if you do wash them off first. The scary part of your story is > the part with the gun. It's a common enough problem and the answer > shouldn't be "no guns in the house" but rather a gun safe combined > with training/teaching the kids about gun safety and use. Owning a > gun comes with responsibility that, unfortunately, too many people > ignore. Last Halloween here in Houston some kid was showing off a gun > and shot his friend in the head. She bled to death in his arms and > it's all on phone video. Lesson: guns are not toys. I'm very glad > your family dodged that bullet. > > -Don > > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > When my wife (before she was my wife) decided to move in with a > > roommate they discussed having guns in the home as my wife know that > > here prospective roommate had some and she wanted no part of it and > > was stipulating that her moving in would mean eliminating the weapon. > > Her perspective roommate agreed and they moved in and then I did and > > the rest is history. > > > Fast forward is is now at least 10 years latter and the roommates son > > is now in his early 20s and a chef and the household has been broken > > up for several years but we have a reunion picnic with the son, > > chicken and wine on a sunny day in the park and this young man, > > remmenices about the day that he and my wife's son and daughter found > > a gun in the drawer.... > > > My wife's son took the gun and removed the clip and pointed at her > > roomate's son and then for some reason pointed it at the hardwood > > floor and pulled the trigger. Well... there of course was a round in > > the chamber... it went off and there was a hole in the floor. They > > quickly put everything back and said nothing for oh say 10years. Until > > that picnic the silence was not broken! > > > Well talk about a fork in the road for all of us! > > > I remember, you won't believe this, but I was tree climbing as a youth > > and stepped on a rotten limb and came crashing down. I fell - you > > won't believe this but I swear it happened - into a another tree > > growing out of near the base of the one I fell from. I fell in a way > > that a "y" of two branches from that tree scraped up along my sides > > into my armpits and the try bent like a spring and set me down onto > > the ground. For the rest of that summer we would bend the tree down > > and get into it in the same way and jump. We called it playing on the > > moon as we were pretending we were like astonauts in 1/6 g. You could > > jump and the tree would partially lift you, To this day I can > > visualize the limb that broke off as I fell past it. > > > There... told you you wouldn't believe it. Several other things > > happened. Don't worry. I don't necessarily make anything out of it > > except that I have been very lucky to survive the risks I took. I had > > no idea what I was doing. It is a wonder I survived. > > > On Jan 18, 12:06 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 18 Jan, 16:29, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > What's the statute of limitations Pat? > > >> For abject vandalism that, as far as I know, no one reported (until > >> now), probably 7 years. Which would make me about 27 years clear of > >> that. Besides, I was a minor at the time (probably 13/14). Why on > >> Earth would anyone waste time and money on THAT? And I can't think > >> that England would extradite me to the States for such a thing. No, I > >> think it's safe to go into the memoirs as 'a stupid kid thing'. > > >> > On 18 Jan, 15:28, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > On 18 Jan, 13:56,Justintruth<[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > I remember whipping up some gunpowder and stuffing it in a metal pipe > >> > > > to make a "flare". (Un)fortunately it was raining the day of haloween > >> > > > when I tried to light it, the matches I had wouldn't strike, and I > >> > > > chucked it so as not to miss the candy! > > >> > > That reminds me of the time that a friend and I filled an empty CO2 > >> > > cartridge with gunpowder (taken from dismantling shotgun shells!!), > >> > > stuck a fuse through the hole in the cap and crimped the cap back down > >> > > onto the cartridge. We lit it, tossed it into a mailbox and BLAM! It > >> > > sounded like a cannon had gone off. And it blew a hole in the side of > >> > > the mailbox about 5 inches across. Boy did we run...fast!!! ;-) > > >> > > > I also remember turning a step down transformer around in a circuit > >> > > > (I > >> > > > thought the problem with it was there "wasn't enough electricity" and > >> > > > I thought using the tranformer in step up configuration would fix the > >> > > > problem by "increasing the amount of electricity" - I really knew > >> > > > what > >> > > > I was doing (NOT)). > > >> > > > Anyway. They were the good ole days. Glad and mystified that I > >> > > > survived them. > > >> > > > On Jan 14, 5:56 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > On 14 Jan, 15:59, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > Don, I even took the golden fiddle with me as a peace offering! > > >> > > > > > I take the same view Orn, perhaps from a Quaker perspective. In > >> > > > > > fact, > >> > > > > > if I was of draftable age, I might well become a Plymouth > >> > > > > > Bretheren > >> > > > > > member. Jared Diamond has put the same view in 'Collapse'. I > >> > > > > > don't > >> > > > > > really believe we can do anything "active" on bringing about (or > >> > > > > > letting come about) sustainable communities until we get to a > >> > > > > > proper > >> > > > > > understanding of the vile state of politics throughout history. > >> > > > > > That > >> > > > > > we have no real history ready-to-hand all over the world is > >> > > > > > surely the > >> > > > > > most damning evidence of conspiracy. Water supply in parts of > >> > > > > > Peru > >> > > > > > strikes me as a classic. They had technology (admittedly > >> > > > > > religious > >> > > > > > cult power related) thousands of years back better than now. > > >> > > > > > I suppose one the the words we use as though we know what it is > >> > > > > > with > >> > > > > > almost no clue is "evidence". I can think here of gel-coated > >> > > > > > slides > >> > > > > > stuck in an electro-chemical experiment that come out with a few > >> > > > > > 'scratches' on them - "evidence of cold-fusion" - yet surely not > >> > > > > > to > >> > > > > > the untrained, ignorant eye. But I can also think of mad > >> > > > > > examples > >> > > > > > from our legal systems, where "experts" convince judges, defence > >> > > > > > barristers and juries not to trust the evidence of their eyes in > >> > > > > > looking at CCTV footage, where, in the end, the whole > >> > > > > > performance was > >> > > > > > about suppressing the real evidence and the truth is really > >> > > > > > about mad > >> > > > > > human behaviour in authority situations. > > >> > > > > > I can imagine a few of us in here on the Nico Bento jury. Let's > >> > > > > > say > >> > > > > > me, you, Fidd, Molly, Gabby, Ian, Chris, Don (add others to > >> > > > > > taste). > >> > > > > > Apparently quite a diverse group as we often disagree and even > >> > > > > > 'fall > >> > > > > > out', though probably not so diverse when one considers the whole > >> > > > > > population. It seems impossible to believe we would have > >> > > > > > convicted > >> > > > > > the fellow because we would have scrutinized the "evidence" > >> > > > > > (however > >> > > > > > much we might worry about the term's epistemological status) > >> > > > > > and, one > >> > > > > > hopes, asked relevant questions. Could we have been > >> > > > > > hornswaggled and > >> > > > > > kow-towed by the now known to be loony "expert" telling us not to > >> > > > > > believe the evidence of our eyes in relevant CCTV footage? I > >> > > > > > suspect > >> > > > > > the presence of any one of us on the jury would have prevented > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > conviction, even by majority verdict. We know enough. Yet the > >> > > > > > British system did find 12 'men good and true' to convict a man > >> > > > > > of > >> > > > > > murder with no evidence there was one, and plenty to suggest the > >> > > > > > accused was telling the truth. I guess too, on the inside of the > >> > > > > > later cold-fusion experiments we could learn enough to conclude > >> > > > > > (a > >> > > > > > long way down the line from the Fleischman-Pons flim-flam), > >> > > > > > there is > >> > > > > > enough evidence to continue investigation, at least to provide a > >> > > > > > better understanding of electro-chemistry. > > >> > > > > > Your assertions, Bill, on the 'dogma of evidence' could be seen > >> > > > > > as > >> > > > > > rather tired, or as another example of the religious denial of > >> > > > > > evidence in favour of faith. I find them neither. Your > >> > > > > > reference to > >> > > > > > Alan Wallace (say) is an exciting possibility, as is the > >> > > > > > existence of > >> > > > > > your general view across the board whilst 'leaving in' spiritual > >> > > > > > possibilities, strongly held, but not dogmatically imposed. > >> > > > > > There no > >> > > > > > doubt remain questions, down to whether non-dogmatism could > >> > > > > > itself be > >> > > > > > dogmatic (as in fatuous undecidable deconstruction taken strongly > >> > > > > > rather than as a weak version). I doubt Nico Bento would have > >> > > > > > cared > >> > > > > > if one of us had been able to stand up for justice for him. > > >> > > > > > I often wonder whether one can do science at all without passion > >> > > > > > from > >> > > > > > at least quasi-religious experience, other than the cook-book- > >> > > > > > engineering form (my slap-in-the-face with a wet fish > >> > > > > > 'realism'). I > >> > > > > > can make gunpowder (and worse) because I can 'destructibly > >> > > > > > distill > >> > > > > > wood' (charcoal), buy flowers of sulphur (or make it from > >> > > > > > photographic > >> > > > > > chemicals and lemon juice) and turn urine into potassium nitrate > >> > > > > > with > >> > > > > > some burned sea-weed, use a pestle and mortar, dissolve the lot > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > dry it out. This is no more 'science' than baking a cake > >> > > > > > (indeed such > >> > > > > > skills are involved). I can throw numbers into equations > >> > > > > > ('string > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
