I'm sorry Vam, but you are so wrong, and you have neglected to give me a logical reason and so I can only assume bigotry on your part. Which is a great shame.
You may disagree with my assesment but let me explain why I say what I do. You tell us that homosexual relationships have not the longevity that hetro ones do. That is quite frankly bollox, and very reminiscent of the crap we used to hear about mixed race marriages here in the 70's and 80's. I can say this without fear of any contradictin at all, as I know many, gay couples who have been togheter as long as my wife and I, some longer. Some of them even have kids. Social cohesion. Would you say we have more of it, or less of it than we did say 50 years ago? Everyday I hear the phrase, 'Broken Britan'.(I don't actualy think it is broken but maybe another thread for that one). The news is all about the divisions that we have thrown up around us. Terriosts becuase of idealocial differanes, wars for oil and money, we have lost the community spirt that we had a mere two decades back, we don't look out for each other, our ids are stabbing each other. This is civilised is it my friend, and as we go along we are getting more so? The point I'm making here is that some of our primal instincts serve us better when it comes to social cohesion. We are by nature a social creature, what is it about us that has dampend that down? You speak of gay sex as juvinile why? On 23 Feb, 17:40, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > On Feb 23, 9:07 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Vam I couldn't say for sure what I may or may not do under difficult > > circumstances. People have been known to eat each other to survive > > though. > > That they do or might have done, or that I may do under circumstances, > does not make a value. A value is what you believe in and live by, on > day to day basis. > > > I'm not sure that I agree with you about our primal natures and our > > intelectual civilising either. let me explian. > > There are many facets to me, as there are all humans, one such is my > > belief about social cohesion. > > Man IS a social animal and it bodes us well to work together, yet > > increasingly we do not. Instead we wage war and indulge in violence > > for seemingly petty reasons. We have in our quest for civilisation > > lost our social cohesion, mark one up for primal thought perhaps? > > I see no connection, Lee ! The quest for civilisation is, above all, a > quest for goodwill for all, a quest to moderate everything that lends > a greater value to oneself and less to others. The social cohesion is > in fact bolstered by such successes at civilised values, and is not in > contradiction. > > > Hetrosexual sex for pleasure, or masterbation for pleasure, do you > > view this as unsavoury or unatural? > > I have already indicated that whether is natural or not has no bearing > on my value system. My values spring from my knowledge that anything > which makes me overtakingly covetous, murderously competitive, > egotistic and condescending of others, is uncivilised. > > > Homosexuality is perfectly natural ... > > The fact or otherwise is irrelevant to our value system. See above. > > > ... and in fact Homosexuals have no choice in the matter. > > Everybody has no choice in something or other. I might empathise, but > disagree that such involuntariness by itself makes it right or > justifiable. We all ( should ) grow up, strengthen our discrimination > and volition, and begin to do what is electable, not just preferable. > > > If you disagree with this statement, try this experiment. Try to get > > sexual aroused by members of the same gender as yourself. > > Lee, I'm 51. I' ve been down that path, and more. > > > I understand that some people do not like the idea, I do not > > understand why, which means I can find no logical reason to dislike > > the idea. Care to give me one? (pun intended). > > It's not about liking or disliking, Lee. I do not elect same sex > relationships, the sexual kind, among grown ups, because : one, it > tends to give the message that juvenile preferences need not be > outgrown, when my own conviction is just the opposite ; and, two, in > practice, it does not have the kind of ( life long ) future which > heterosexual couples yet have, within a family created and nurtured by > them. > > Again, often, perhaps because of this felt lack of much of a future, > same sex relationships are marked by more by power play / domination > than love and care. > > > > > > > On 23 Feb, 15:05, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Lee, survival is in our nature. So, would you eat up your kid ? Many > > > animals do. > > > > All this is limiting ourselves to basics, and negating the civilising > > > evolution that has since taken place, in which process, we must admit, > > > religion has played a huge role. ( Animal ) Nature is no guide to > > > values we need to nurture today. And, being natural, is no mantra > > > enough ! > > > > We can do much better. So, it is with homosexuality. It is that part > > > of our nature we may indulge in as juveniles, but need to grow up and > > > transcend. I'd understand if one doesn't or is incapable of. But the > > > justification of it has no place. I'd empathise, without deeming it as > > > acceptable, from my sense of values. > > > > And no, my reasoning has nothing to do with procreation. In fact, we > > > are better off not procreating for an entire generation ! > > > > On Feb 23, 2:43 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Umm not quite true though is it? As Fidds point out there are > > > > countless example of same gender sex occouring within other species. > > > > > Also what do you mean by Mother Nature? There really is no single > > > > force that can be given that name, is there? > > > > > On 22 Feb, 21:18, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lee! > > > > > I agree with you that if it occurs it is natural; but at the same time > > > > > that is not what mother nature intended it to be, because as I said, > > > > > Mother Nature is there for the propagation of the species, anything > > > > > other than that > > > > > would be against Mother Nature will. > > > > > > On Feb 23, 12:31 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Unnatural? How so? > > > > > > > I mean if it occours, then it is natural yes? > > > > > > > On 20 Feb, 00:30, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > If they are really happy with their relationship: Does it matter > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > they get married or not? > > > > > > > For me if there is a god, this God would not and perhaps could not > > > > > > > take part in their unnatural relationship as God and Mother Nature > > > > > > > could be the same thing. > > > > > > > > On Feb 20, 9:12 am, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > A friend of mine prayed for true love in the form of a blonde > > > > > > > > haired > > > > > > > > and beautiful woman 5 years younger than himself. He is now 10 > > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > into a spectacular relationship with a dark-haired man 10 years > > > > > > > > older > > > > > > > > than himself. The two love each other very much and I rejoice > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > them, they truly deserve the happiness that they have have > > > > > > > > found and > > > > > > > > build upon. Sadly, each claims that god answered some prayer in > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > past and dismiss the idea that they had prayed for something > > > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > More sadly, anti-human rights churches (which are most churches) > > > > > > > > refuse to allow them to be formally married. > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 1:41 pm, Manfraco Frank Elder <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pat! Since you have personally experienced this spiritual > > > > > > > > > event, > > > > > > > > > which you think that people would not believe you or > > > > > > > > > understand you, > > > > > > > > > don't worry I understand you because I have had one of those > > > > > > > > > experiences myself. > > > > > > > > > Now because of this spiritual experience and the reasons why > > > > > > > > > I had it, > > > > > > > > > I am trying to write a book and my own personal theory why > > > > > > > > > this has > > > > > > > > > happened to me. In order to explain my experience more > > > > > > > > > clearly, I am > > > > > > > > > going to paste here a small part of my writings. Let me know > > > > > > > > > what you > > > > > > > > > think, you you have the time? > > > > > > > > > > Angels say > > > > > > > > > > You ought to pray to Our Father Most High, > > > > > > > > > God's heavenly angels would tell us from the sky, > > > > > > > > > Pray and tell Father what would be your heart desires? > > > > > > > > > So Father could decide what would be your supply. > > > > > > > > > > So, I've prayed to Our Father God Most High, > > > > > > > > > Father of the entire world that guides the universe, > > > > > > > > > Let there be an angel from the realm of glory, > > > > > > > > > That would guide me to tell your eternal glory. > > > > > > > > > > AND THEN ONE DAY! > > > > > > > > > And then one day I had a real surprise, because my prayer > > > > > > > > > above was > > > > > > > > > really answered: > > > > > > > > > Incredible as it may seem this event really took place and > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > surprised me, because while I was going to the local shops > > > > > > > > > one very > > > > > > > > > late afternoon just before sunset, I saw three persons that I > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > never seen before on the footpath which I was walking on, > > > > > > > > > they were > > > > > > > > > fully dressed in simple tidy everyday clothes even though it > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > summer, and in summer most men here ware shorts, while women > > > > > > > > > ware > > > > > > > > > flimsy clothes to keep cool. Looking back at this event it > > > > > > > > > seems to me > > > > > > > > > that these three persons were waiting for me to pass near > > > > > > > > > them; and as > > > > > > > > > I was approaching them two of them a man and a woman started > > > > > > > > > walking > > > > > > > > > towards me leaving the other man alone, so that I had to walk > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > them to keep going to this shop, they had to be from heaven, > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > what the man left alone on my left said to me no human being > > > > > > > > > on earth > > > > > > > > > could ever have known at that time. > > > > > > > > > GREETINGS TO THE AUTHOR OF RECONCILIATION OF THE UNIVERSE! > > > > > > > > > One of these angels said to me with a courteous jest. > > > > > > > > > But I was terrified from this sudden happening and moved away > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > them in fear. > > > > > > > > > About this supernatural happening I will describe to you > > > > > > > > > later on, in > > > > > > > > > a more detailed way, in a special place within these > > > > > > > > > writings, where > > > > > > > > > it would be easier to understand why this happened to me, > > > > > > > > > since in > > > > > > > > > that position it will make more sense to the readers. For now > > > > > > > > > I want > > > > > > > > > only to say that this apparition is what really pushes me to > > > > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > > to write these religious writings, since this is for me the > > > > > > > > > proof of > > > > > > > > > the existence of a higher intelligence in the whole universe > > > > > > > > > and the > > > > > > > > > proof that we are not alone. > > > > > > > > > My writings in progress can be found at this link below: > > > > > > > > > >http://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/ > > > > > > > > > I hope my link works, and you can find my writings of Prayers > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Reconciliation at the bottom of the page. > > > > > > > > > My regards > > > > > > > > > Manfraco. > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 20, 4:05 am, Pat <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Feb, 16:00, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Consciousness is not separate from the body , rather it > > > > > > > > > > > is the body > > > > > > > > > > > which is conscious , unconscious and dead. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
