Your good argument often sounds like stuff that can be found in the leftie literature from 1850 on Rigsby, though less abstract and not boring. We remain very slow to see what you do talk so pertinently about. Much the same can be said (if she'll forgive the term) of Molly's 'therapy focus'. Much of it is as clear as daylight to some of us, yet is not embedded in our day-to-day or producing a wider, modern morality.
On 19 Mar, 13:07, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > If Morality is a personal decision rather than imposed by a religion, > society/government or family/tribe, then it all boils down to what you > can get away with, it seems to me. I have been thinking about this and > trying to trace a line through four generations and here's where I am > at: the Vatican/religion has lost its moral authority but so have > governments and families. The public/mass media have emerged as the > judge and jury of people, places and things leading to a herd > acceptance of what is acceptable. You can trace the steady influence > through late night comic hosts, Oprah, Phil, the reality shows, > program content, print media, tech hysteria and so on.It's pretty much > complete in the West and will struggle in the Muslim world and China > plus geographical relatives but there too, central authority will > collapse. The basic concepts of the Good, human happiness, etc- all > categories- will adapt and change as well. Money, power, youth, > popularity and dozens of other attributes will replace the dusty > virtues and duties of the past. And yes, I also expect to see the > infamous "death panels". :-) > > On Mar 18, 4:34 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'll say it agian Slip so we are all clear of what I mean when I use > > the word Moral. Morlaity is your personal definition of what is right > > or wrong. So you and I can share the same ethical system but still > > have a differing morality. > > > So yes ALL morality is subjective. > > > On 16 Mar, 22:52, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ah! But isn't that the key and part of your own acknowledgment, that > > > establishing a moral decision as right or wrong is the problem. By > > > what standard do we decide what is morally incorrect. Again as I > > > stated in my first post; morality has a broad scope considering much > > > of it is defined by society/culture/religion. Emotional attachment > > > to a moral dilemma would have to be based on the defined moral > > > incident specific to a circumstance. Perhaps there are moral > > > decisions that do not evoke emotional interplay while others create > > > emotional hysteria that is divisive and counter productive. We can > > > only find answers by pointing to specific instances of moral dilemma > > > and even then it is highly subjective, individually and culturally. > > > Is marriage to one's cousin immoral? We can see that emotions, ie; > > > love, would play a strong part in making that decision but then who > > > decides if it is immoral, the parents, the church, the neighbors, the > > > culture etc? > > > > On Mar 16, 12:11 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yes that does and my thanks for it Slip. > > > > > I disagree though. With emotions attached to moral deciscions do you > > > > not think the chances of makeing a moraly incorrect desicion are > > > > hightend? > > > > > On 16 Mar, 14:20, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Yes emotions should play a part in a moral dilemma. Emotions play a > > > > > part in almost everything we do, not to be construed as a fervent > > > > > emotion all the time, but any level, from non-emotion to radical and > > > > > all in between. In a moral dilemma emotions may vacillate while one > > > > > is trying to assess a situation, however in my 3 examples there is no > > > > > need for assessment, I would immediately get my weapon and kill. The > > > > > danger is obvious from the beginning, at the entry into the house. > > > > > I think emotions have their part in the formation of morals and > > > > > ethics. People probably establish their own morality based on their > > > > > own emotions. Therefore, if emotion is an integral part of any > > > > > morality, it should be there in the endeavor to negotiate the dilemma > > > > > and bring it to a conclusion. Hope that answers your question. > > > > > > On Mar 15, 11:37 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > So despite you asuranes that this is not an emotional response, I > > > > > > think it is so. > > > > > > > I would love to be able to say I would B, but who knows what would > > > > > > actualy happen. Just so that we are clear though. I hold no ideas > > > > > > about the sancticty of human life, I certianly do not belive in > > > > > > such a > > > > > > thing, and it is purel;y moral reasons I would like to say B and > > > > > > also > > > > > > has nowt to do with my own spirtuality. > > > > > > > The question though was not are their emotions involed in moral > > > > > > dilemers, it is clear that there are, but should there be? > > > > > > > You have not really answered this Slip, wanna have a go at doing so? > > > > > > > On 15 Mar, 15:33, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > We also had other discussions on the death penalty, a much > > > > > > > divisive > > > > > > > topic where we might as well toss Religion in with the Moral and > > > > > > > Ethical issues. > > > > > > > > A man comes home and finds two of his children beheaded and > > > > > > > beaten, > > > > > > > blood everywhere, he goes into the closet and gets his shotgun and > > > > > > > slowly walks up the stairs, where at the top he finds his wife > > > > > > > brutally murdered as well. He hears moaning and sobbing coming > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the bedroom and as he walks over he finds a strange man raping his > > > > > > > teenage daughter. The man sees him and jumps off the bed, puts > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > hands up and says he's sorry, that he doesn't know what came over > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > and says please don't kill me. > > > > > > > > What to do Lee; > > > > > > > > (A) Tell the stranger that you are going to get help for him to > > > > > > > see if > > > > > > > he can be rehabilitated. > > > > > > > > (B) Explain that because of your moral and ethical values and your > > > > > > > religious beliefs you can't kill him but you will make sure that > > > > > > > instead he gets food and shelter and medical care for the rest of > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > life in an institution. > > > > > > > > (C) BLAM BLAM Death Penalty immediately issued while ridding the > > > > > > > world of a demented piece of garbage who most likely wouldn't be > > > > > > > rehabilitated anyway and if escaped would go out and kill and rape > > > > > > > some more victims. Recidivism rates speak for themselves. > > > > > > > > I'd go with (C) and with a clear conscience. This nonsense about > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > moral social conscience in regards to murderers is IMO, faulted > > > > > > > reasoning. We've better things to do with our society than > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > murdering mental defectives. What are we trying to prove? Do we > > > > > > > pat > > > > > > > ourselves on the back and claim we are a more advanced society > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > we don't even kill those who kill us? Are we more religiously > > > > > > > righteous and heavenly bound? Should we pamper Pit Bulls as well > > > > > > > after they inflict a lethal attack on an innocent child? > > > > > > > Oh and do you think for one minute that I would let my daughter > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > baby if she became pregnant from an incident like that? I'd > > > > > > > perform > > > > > > > the abortion myself if I had to. > > > > > > > > US Prisons house over 2 million inmates, according to outdated > > > > > > > sources > > > > > > > and out of that population thousands are people I wouldn't spend 2 > > > > > > > seconds thinking about other than their riddance. What is > > > > > > > rehabilitation for a "lifer", rehabilitation for "what?". > > > > > > > > As of August 2009 the total prison population of the UK stood at > > > > > > > 93,574. That is a lot considering the size of the UK. > > > > > > > > We need to stop raising and nurturing criminals. China might > > > > > > > have had > > > > > > > it right, chop their heads off in the public square, let the > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > see that crime really doesn't pay. I'd be the first to buy a > > > > > > > ticket > > > > > > > to the show, let the heads roll. > > > > > > > > BTW, I'm not emotion about this, I'm laughing while typing. lol > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 7:13 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Heheh very strange what we all take as common knowldge isn't it. > > > > > > > > > I had always understood the diffrance between morality and > > > > > > > > ethics to > > > > > > > > be this. Morality is one personal definition on what is good > > > > > > > > or bad. > > > > > > > > Ethics is concerened with doing that which is right. So one > > > > > > > > descriptive and the other more concerned with the doing, or > > > > > > > > actions. > > > > > > > > > I had always had this in mind when talking about morality here. > > > > > > > > However a little while back, and by that I mean less than a > > > > > > > > year. We > > > > > > > > had another debate about morality, some questions where asked > > > > > > > > abotu > > > > > > > > what I mean when I say 'Moral' and when I say 'Ethical', it > > > > > > > > seemed > > > > > > > > that my ideas where just a little out and due to the helpfull > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > here I re thought teh definitions that i had always belived > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > correct. That is: > > > > > > > > > Morality is still ones personal opinion on what is good and > > > > > > > > what is > > > > > > > > bad, but Ethics deals with a more social morality. That is you > > > > > > > > and I > > > > > > > > could have differing ideas due to our morality, but our ethics > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > fro the society or other groupings we find ourselves in. > > > > > > > > > Now you say that this is also wrong? Hhahah gees, a little help > > > > > > > > anybody? > > > > > > > > > On 15 Mar, 11:54, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Morality is not a personal decision but a > > > > > > > > > communal one and > > > > > > > > > is not innate but taught by the family and society. Morals > > > > > > > > > are loose > > > > > > > > > enough to change according to current trends and therefore > > > > > > > > > not fixed- > > > > > > > > > they are a cousin to "situation ethics". > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 6:31 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think that is wrong mate. Morality is no more than ones > > > > > > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > > definition of what is right and what is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar, 06:27, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And no: morals are not based on reason, ethics are based > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
