What was the question, ma'am ? The last I remember you'd run away from answering a few I'd posed for you.
Until you respond to them or express your reasons for not doing so, I'd have no motivation in responding to your posts from hereon. On Jun 28, 10:34 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Ah, Gravity is your answer, Vam. I understand that. I'm having > problems accessing google groups via direct login myself. But the old > work-around somehow still does the trick. And in the meantime I > silently prey for some higher bug fixing entity to dissolve all my > inconveniences. So much for my sad truth. > > On 26 Jun., 22:49, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Nature knows no but and no problem. On which grounds do you distil > > your "we" definition then? > > > On 26 Jun., 18:39, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > " ... how we end up under mad leaders like Mao, Hitler and Kim Jong > > > IL," > > > > Because " we " are in essence no different from them, psychically > > > speaking. They gathered their mind to their two or three beliefs, we > > > do not, found and took their opportunities in the environment, we did > > > not, were encouraged by their successes, we were relative losers, and > > > ended up being convinced about the truth in their beliefs, while we > > > were still searching and lost. " We " followed them, in amazement and > > > in our weaknesses, in comparison ! > > > > Like the vultures who fly high but ( naturally ) have their eye on the > > > carcass on the ground, " we " may ( naturally ! ) think high of > > > ourselves but are yet defined by ( our concern and preoccupation > > > with ) the same needs ... food, sex, security, power ( over food, sex > > > and security of others people ). > > > > That is the simple ( natural ) problem with " we." > > > > On Jun 26, 7:36 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There's some great footage available on chimps in which one can tell > > > > how much better the whole group feels under the rather 'kindly' Freud > > > > as Alpha, than when the 'bumptious' Frodo takes over (he's the one > > > > who steals and kills a human baby). I believe we lie a lot about > > > > human behaviour and need to recognize the flaws we carry. I think it > > > > is a mistake to think these are somehow essentials that can be > > > > channelled or that we need the aggression - this is often ritualised > > > > in nature. All Gruff's point have some kind of validity. What I'm > > > > after is an understanding of how we end up under mad leaders like Mao, > > > > Hitler and Kim Jong IL, the extent to which this afflicts all > > > > leadership and how we might be able to structure freedom from whatever > > > > this is. > > > > > On 25 June, 07:24, ashok tewari <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > " ... greatest of freedoms, freedom from ignorance, fear, guilt, and > > > > > our own > > > > > aggressive natures." > > > > > > Great thought, Gruff ! The only hitch is this evidence that no > > > > > amount of > > > > > formal education or prosperity, political and economic growth, law > > > > > and order > > > > > or judicial improvements, will lead to elimination of those bondages > > > > > ... > > > > > because they are the negatives which human beings secrete from within > > > > > themselves, because that is the nature and limitations of the > > > > > psychical > > > > > world we carry and inhabit within ourselves, because awakening into > > > > > the > > > > > spiritual realm is essentially a non - material, supramental and > > > > > quantum > > > > > process ... that needs love and desire for truth, for its own sake, > > > > > for fuel > > > > > ! > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:20 AM, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > "... On Jun 24, 7:02 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: ..." > > > > > > > > Ants even take 'slaves'- much behaviour is deeply genetic. All > > > > > > > primates show political behaviour. Many competitions in the > > > > > > > animal > > > > > > > world are brutish, some ritualised and there is more cooperation > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > seems likely at first glance. > > > > > > > Seems like an accurate assessment from what I've seen as well. But > > > > > > the primate aggression noted in the article seems most significant > > > > > > to > > > > > > me in the sense that they are our nearest relatives and we haven't > > > > > > changed that much except that today our aggression is expressed in > > > > > > more acceptable forms such as competition in business, sports, > > > > > > family > > > > > > and even with ourselves -- notwithstanding the fact that much of > > > > > > that > > > > > > competition incurs fraud, larceny and chicanery. Perhaps this is > > > > > > part > > > > > > of the path to achieving freedom from the fear and guilt which > > > > > > drives > > > > > > such destructive behavior. > > > > > > > > I associate a burning lack of freedom > > > > > > > in our current society, much to do with dire jobsworths - this > > > > > > > reminds > > > > > > > me a lot of the worst of the soviets. The ease with which anyone > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > be treated as 'worthless shit' is what's eating me. I don't see > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > as political-economic in terms of capitalism or anything else - > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > more imperialist. > > > > > > > I have to ask ... freedom from what? Freedom to do what? A > > > > > > perceived > > > > > > lack of freedom is a recognizable and common plaint around the world > > > > > > today and whenever I hear it I ask those questions because from my > > > > > > perspective we have more freedom today than we've ever had in all > > > > > > our > > > > > > past history. But even here I have to define and divine the > > > > > > freedoms > > > > > > of which I speak. > > > > > > > In an ultimate sense we all have the freedom at any time to perform > > > > > > most acts we can conceive but we don't necessarily want many of > > > > > > those > > > > > > freedoms. I'm quite sure, except for a few self indulgent > > > > > > miscreants, > > > > > > no one would want the freedom to pick up the jawbone of an ass and > > > > > > slay people. Freedom from want is relatively easy to achieve in > > > > > > western society and becoming more so in other societies via a great > > > > > > expansion of wealth (ex. China, India, et al). > > > > > > > Freedom from being screwed by those wielding the big screwdrivers? > > > > > > Freedom from being treated as the 'worthless shit' you reference? > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > not certain but it seems that success in the political-economic > > > > > > realm > > > > > > would be advantageous to achieving freedom in those areas. Wealth > > > > > > and > > > > > > power enable a great deal of freedom. But I've a feeling you're > > > > > > talking more about freedom for the proletariat. I think this is > > > > > > probably achieved at a much slower pace and in smaller increments. > > > > > > > The average slob in western society today has achieved a great deal > > > > > > of > > > > > > freedom relative to the amount of freedom he'd have in western > > > > > > society > > > > > > a hundred years ago. Sure, back then he'd have the freedom to wear > > > > > > a > > > > > > gun and probably get killed in some godforsaken bar fight Well, > > > > > > thinking about it, pursuant to new law, that same freedom is > > > > > > available > > > > > > here in Arizona. It is now legal for Arizonans to wear concealed > > > > > > weapons without benefit of a permit and to wear those concealed > > > > > > weapons into bars if they so choose. Maybe the heat eventually > > > > > > fries > > > > > > brains. > > > > > > > But a century ago that same man or woman would not have the freedom > > > > > > to > > > > > > move about the world easily, study anyone and anything they chose, > > > > > > attend institutes of higher learning, be attended to by competent > > > > > > and > > > > > > well equipped doctors, lawyers, accountants, police, firemen, etc., > > > > > > to > > > > > > shop for a wide variety of merchandise from around the world, to do > > > > > > a > > > > > > million such things and benefit from a million others that simply > > > > > > were > > > > > > not available a hundred years ago. > > > > > > > If I could wish but one freedom upon the human race it would be > > > > > > freedom from stupidity. Freedom from the self-destructiveness that > > > > > > seems inherent in our species. But the very thing that separates > > > > > > us > > > > > > from all other species is the high degree of mental ability we have > > > > > > and this ability seems to come with a built in curse (perhaps it's > > > > > > what many religions refer to as 'original sin') that is a self- > > > > > > awareness which permits us -- even lures us -- to doubts and fears > > > > > > which no other species endures. We truly are our own worst enemy. > > > > > > > I feel it is our awareness coupled with this self-destructiveness > > > > > > that > > > > > > when expressed via the aggressive natures we still carry, leads to > > > > > > much of the misery you speak of. Perhaps it is this which we still > > > > > > have to conquer in order to achieve the greatest of freedoms, > > > > > > freedom > > > > > > from ignorance, fear, guilt, and our own aggressive natures. > > > > > > -- > > > > > ASHOK TEWARI- Zitierten Text ausblenden - > > > - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
