As I recall, the Peter Principle advanced people who were good at one
job into one they were hopelessly ill-equipped to perform- an example
would be placing a craftsman into management or an excellent teacher
into the principal's office. Heh! Sort of like electing a community
organizer to the Senate or Presidency! :-)

On Jul 20, 7:19 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a feeling the Peter Principle was written in the late 50's
> Gruff.  I always objected to it because it suggested people were
> promoted because they were ever good at something.  I favour
> cooperatives and think we should restrict pay and other earnings to
> individuals, but I'm not happy with centralised government squandering
> the capital produced. It breaks my back these days using hand tools
> to  dig my vegetable garden.  This produces about a quarter of our
> food.  Technology has brought massive productivity rises, meaning we
> should have more leisure and so on. I don't want some Indonesian guy
> breaking his back on my behalf. I think economics should start in such
> considerations.
>
> On 19 July, 17:20, DarkwaterBlight <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm not particularly agreeable with that either but I do understand
> > his position as I have worked for the feds for several years past
> > tense. I am more agreeable with arch in that the private sector needs
> > to step up where the govt. is falling grossly short and need to do it
> > in areas other than new bussiness managment models. We are in a
> > technically advanced world today and educational institutions need to
> > take the initiative to develop relationships with industry and form co-
> > ops to provide a competent workforce in many different disciplines
> > across the board. These co-op students provide an affordable labor and
> > ground floor managment force and cost no more than the imports in the
> > long run.
>
> > On Jul 18, 2:30 pm, ashok tewari <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > " Human incompetence and stupidity is pandemic ... "
>
> > > The bastards who believe in this need are the same who are addicted to 
> > > going
> > > back to the sucking they are used to, and I include Gruff among the 
> > > suckers
> > > !
>
> > > That's an ad hominem and I am guilty as accused !  It's impossible to
> > > include him in a shorthand practice and not know him for what he is ! It's
> > > ignorance dark. Let Gruff lodge his complaint or withdraw gracefully.
>
> > > But he's a vermin. No human is incompetent except by the bosses that pay
> > > him. The feudalism and capitalism isn't far ! Having landed into nothing, 
> > > he
> > > expects everyone to be likewise ... nothing. Well Gruff, not everyone is
> > > agreeable to being nothing. And I want to turn the world upside down  if
> > > that be what you want us to be .
>
> > > I do not agree with his buttering and cuddling to powers that be.
>
> > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:40 PM, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > "... On Jul 16, 8:27 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: ..."
>
> > > > > We have a hosepipe ban here Gruff - water shortage in NW England!  I'm
> > > > > looking for a bet that all Lancashire cricket will now be washed out!
> > > > > Our Bulgarian neighbours can't work out why they don't just shut the
> > > > > stuff off 8 hours a day like back home.  They still dig wells to
> > > > > irrigate crops on the family farm over there.  Given how incompetent
> > > > > we are in government in the West I'm often amazed we get anything
> > > > > built,until I think of my experience elsewhere.  My sense is that we
> > > > > did do a fair day's pay better than most others and need to get back
> > > > > to that.  The cuts here will hurt more than most expect -and all over
> > > > > Europe as the private sector will probably have no bounce or
> > > > > innovation.  I hope I'm wrong, but the kind of private sector I worked
> > > > > in has gone.  What keeps springing up are management agencies for
> > > > > essentially public sector work, done at cheaper prices.  I suspect
> > > > > this is wrong in principle.  I'm all in favour of efficiency, but we
> > > > > need more than just this.
>
> > > > Human incompetence and stupidity is pandemic and I think always has
> > > > been and yes, I too am continually astounded that things we manage to
> > > > accomplish in spite of it.  Clearly it does not take a majority of the
> > > > population to bring about positive change.  There was a book very
> > > > popular over here back in the '80s called The Peter Principle which
> > > > argued that people in any sort of organizational situation will rise
> > > > to the highest level of their own incompetence.  In government it's
> > > > called the bureaucracy and it works the same way in any large
> > > > corporation.  Entities may or may not be too big to fail but they are
> > > > definitely big enough to be incredibly stupid, inefficient, inept,
> > > > self-centered, paranoid and self-destructive in their attempts to be
> > > > self-perpetuating.
>
> > > > Yet in spite of it all, I feel positive about the future.  I used to
> > > > have that confidence because I always figured that competent good
> > > > people outnumbered the idiots 51% to 49%.  I have a new theory these
> > > > days.  As I noted above, I think it only takes a small number of
> > > > people working at their best and in the best interests of society to
> > > > move us forward.
>
> > > > > My suspicion is that the business models are outdated.  Our pubs are
> > > > > closing everywhere, screwed by taxes, costly buildings, equipment,
> > > > > position and being just crap places.  Nothing new is replacing them.
> > > > > I can think of nowhere where the old smoke stacks have really been
> > > > > replaced, and all the shipping and such is in other labour markets -
> > > > > we could draw up along list.  Kids are being told to get educated, but
> > > > > frankly the factories and big companies did a much better job at that
> > > > > than universities and colleges.  There is no vision and I think the
> > > > > 'invisible hand' is broken.  Charles Murray talked about this 30 years
> > > > > ago.  The new government is basically saying there is no money, so sod
> > > > > off and find new ways to do stuff.
>
> > > > While some business models are clearly outdated, others that currently
> > > > don't seem to work would show progress if they were properly and
> > > > rationally applied.  But outmoded industry and industry that has
> > > > become far too labor expensive ( vs being labor intensive) is gone for
> > > > good to emerging nations.  I think our education system -- and
> > > > probably yours too -- is geared toward the old assembly line industry
> > > > and needs to be redirected toward a more complex technical industrial
> > > > and business world.  Over here that shows up  clearly in our huge
> > > > influx of high tech workers from other nations because we can't find
> > > > them among our own.  This seems especially prevalent in the medical
> > > > profession and is creating a new problem in the area of
> > > > communication.  These technicians and health care workers may be
> > > > technically proficient but there is a language problem that is causing
> > > > a high degree of mistakes.  Secondly, and this is strictly my own
> > > > opinion with no supporting evidence, but I find many nurses are coming
> > > > here from Asia and have a cultural background that places different
> > > > values on human life and comfort than what we in the west have.
>
> > > > > The single Gaussian copula (or multiple) is not of much interest,other
> > > > > than that our financial institutions waste a lot of electricity
> > > > > cooling CPUs to run it - Wiki has a reasonable explanation. I;m fairly
> > > > > good in the area and can't see that it's much more than another magic
> > > > > wand covering insider trading and betting with more knowledge than the
> > > > > market as a whole.
>
> > > > I took a look at the Wiki entry and while it might be a reasonable
> > > > explanation for someone in that specialty it was greek to me.  I'll
> > > > take your word that it's pretty much another magic wand.  But trading
> > > > is nothing more than a more reputable form of casino gaming and the
> > > > casinos have allowed, welcomed and even financed some people to come
> > > > in and try out their systems for beating the odds.  The house always
> > > > winds up with its take regardless.  The only system that's a proven
> > > > winner is counting cards at blackjack or '21' and the state made it
> > > > illegal.
>
> > > > I understand the comparison is superficial because the market can be
> > > > manipulated much easier than a casino can be taken, but there is still
> > > > that element that's present.  People are complaining that more
> > > > regulation will raise the cost of finance and possibly may smother the
> > > > economy.  I don't think so.  People are always devising protection
> > > > schemes that others find their way around almost immediately.  It just
> > > > takes an ever higher level of being clever.  But the system continues
> > > > on, so clearly the deviousity (sic) is not that much a hindrance to
> > > > continual profits.
>
> > > > > I'm all for shaking out the apples, but I want to
> > > > > see more than vague, old and failed hopes of entrepreneurial
> > > > > enterprise and such.  Most public debates are clapped out.  Science
> > > > > would be looking for a new core programme for capitalism 4.
>
> > > > According to my theory the growth of human awareness, innate morality,
> > > > and civil behavior always lags scientific and business innovation and
> > > > advancement but that gap is getting smaller as the demands of a fast
> > > > moving world pull us along.  The theory, knowledge and practice will
> > > > follow in logical order.
>
> > > > Just keep on reminding yourself that it's a fiat economy -- a fiction
> > > > by any other name -- and we're the authors.  We can write it any way
> > > > we wish.
>
> > > --
> > > ASHOK TEWARI- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Reply via email to