"... On Aug 18, 8:57 pm, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: ..."
> > Isn't proof of existence outside the confines of ones own
> > consciousness of more value?
>
> I'll take a crack at it: We are something, sentient and intelligent. We
> exist by the same measure, as we perceive it, as the world(s) we inhabit
> through our innate senses. The heuristic beauty of our intelligence
> endows us with the ability to expose and inspect our world while at the
> same time reflecting upon it and ourselves. By any standard, one
> certainly exists (or at least I do), and by the force of sheer
> statistics it is reasonable to assume everything and everyone does as
> well. If there is a greater standard by which we do not exist it is
> alien to logic or reason and perhaps irrelevant or as philosophy of
> science would say, 'uninteresting'. Or another way, it is as relevant to
> us as we are to it, (at least/) as we are here.
Agreed, especially the latter. I cannot think of any standard by
which we do not exist and I consider the point irrelevant. Perhaps
after I die I may have a different perspective but for here and now,
as I said, I agree.
> I prefer panpsychism myself (aka 'radical materislism' on a purely
> information plane), but it depends on mood so I might drift between it
> and pantheism (experiential plane) or somewhere else outside those
> definitions. {chuckles} I've been thinking about hijacking ID and making
> a new Super-ID, tagline: 'If you can't tell the difference between the
> two domains that makes two of us'. I am happy you stayed this time
> Gruff, it is a pleasure.
There is a rare definition of pantheism which I like, mainly due to
it's antithesis. A pantheist in this case is one who admits or
tolerates all gods while an atheist is one who admits or tolerates no
gods. I lay claim to the latter title (along with about a billion
others.) However, I'm not sure what panpsychism is, but according
to one source it is that the entire Universe is an organism which
possesses a mind (or that all material entities possess a mind), but
I'm not quite sure how that works. I could readily admit to all
higher forms of life possess a mind but whether that could include
flora and bacterial life I have serious doubts, but not absolute
doubts. After all, even the simplest of life forms will shy away from
harm and turn toward that which enhances life. Some call this simply
instinct but where in the whole of that life form would instinct be
seated but in some form of a mind even if we don't recognize it as
such. This is why I say my doubts are not absolute.
Another definition of pantheist is one who believes the entire
universe is a manifestation of god. This is closer to something I
would consider possible in the remote chance there was a god; which,
without a lot of mumbo-jumbo, implies that we are our gods in the
becoming. This ties in closely with what I believe to be our creation
of gods; i.e., that we created them out of fear and loneliness but in
doing so gave those gods characteristics and abilities we ourselves
possess. In other words, we are not created in gods image but rather
we created our gods in our own image.
Of course this is all based on my core perception that we are the
supreme creatures in the Universe.
