In essance Slip I agree, but of course 'faith' comes in all flavours and it is my belife that 'faith' IS part and parcel of the normal human condition. Religion then is a differant aspect of faith, but as a kid I'm sure that you would agree that to place 'faith' in the ability of your parents to look after your well being is not, as you put it a human creation.
On 14 Sep, 01:38, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > There is a great deal of assumption going on here in your post. > > Let's look...........But first to cover Lee's query as to primal > helping. We all concede that we have primal traits and these traits > include but are not limited to primal helping. Primal helping, like > nurturing and fear, is one in the group of primal traits. > On the other hand "religion and faith are not in the primal group" but > are human creations or whatever label you want to give them. My > granddaughter will go and assist another child picking up toys on her > own but she doesn't make any sign of the cross or get down on her > knees and kiss the ground in praise or worship. When she gets a gift > she doesn't say thank god she says thanks grandpa. Religions are a > product of social conditioning and cultural order. If she never gets > introduced to religion or gets instilled with notions of a vengeful > deity it would probably serve her better and it won't preclude her > becoming a sweet, loving and giving person. > > AW; > What does the voluntary subjection of oneself to a (god theory) have > anything to do with it? > > Your assuming that there is or needs to be some dogma associated with > "helping/assisting/working together" in an all atheist community. I > help my neighbors, my friends and strangers without any book to guide > me nor any dogmatic handbook to instruct me. > People don't automatically become horrible people if they don't have a > god; that is a nonsensical idea. I think it is horrible that we send > our children off to become indoctrinated with all this religion > nonsense, its like force feeding their brains. > > I see it all the time............ > "mommy, why do I have to go to church?" > "because sweetheart, if you don't god will rip out your guts, make > your eyeballs fall out and turn your life into a living hell" > "what is hell mommy" > "hell is where you go to suffer and burn if you don't go to church" > "now sweetheart, you just learn everything and believe everything they > tell you and don't ask any questions". > > Last........You are assuming that helping is or has to be a duty. > This clearly puts you on one side of the river. Believing in a god is > not a prerequisite to helping someone. You are implying that atheists > would stand around like dummies without a clue as to what to do if > they didn't have some god to instill in them a guilt for not doing > anything. Is that why you would help someone; because it is your > "duty" to do so? If that is the case I'd rather you didn't help me. > > I may pull over to help out a stranger with a stalled out car simply > on the basis that I've been in that position before and know how much > better it is when you have someone else there to help you out or give > you a ride to the nearest gas station. Would the stranger then assume > that I was religious because I stopped to help? Many christians are > hypocritical anyway when it comes to helping others. I can't count > how many times I have been cut off by rude drivers with the cute > little fish on their car. A lot religious people are fanatical and > dangerous. So as my OP suggests we are better off without it. > > So not only do you assume that atheists need to have a religious duty > to help someone but you also assume that people having a religion/ > faith will help someone on account of their religious duty. If you > could think outside of your religious box you would see that religion > is not a necessity for the benefit of humanity. > > Essentially you are off on all counts. > > On Sep 13, 10:30 am, Alan Wostenberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Sure, "helping is primal". But the Jihadist, having a different > > theology than the Christian, believes he is helping you by converting > > you to Islam by the sword. Not so the Christian, for whom religion is > > the "The voluntary subjection of oneself to God". > > > The island of atheists? Sure, they'd "help others" for some definition > > of "help" and "others". I know something about the Christian command > > to love my neighbor but don't know the official atheist dogma on > > helping others. If one acted like there were no God why would he > > think he has any duty to help others? > > > On Sep 12, 8:28 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > AW; > > > Yes there is............. > > > I'll refer you to rigsy's sept. 6 10:15 am post as to my "theistic > > > religiosity" comment. > > > > Also, people use therapy and AA like a religion- in fact, they "use" a > > > lot of things in lieu of religion. What about jingoism? <<<rigsy > > > > Do you think no one would help anyone else on an island of atheists > > > because they didn't have a religion to tell them to do so? Helping > > > is primal and innate as nurturing; religion and faith is human > > > construct and not necessity.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
