I like Daoism for its recognition that natural law permeates through all. Such laws as 'following the path of least resistance' - efficiency. Conservation of energy/conservation of resources - Yin/Yan Balance - Yin/Yan Being adaptive, malleable - becoming like water that overcomes any rock - evolution
And many other principles that are highly respected in Daoism that are simply reflections of what we see in nature practiced on a social and psychological level. I don't really much care for any of the mythology of any religion. Just the better aspect of their philosophies. I.e. I am an eclectic philosopher - a cherry picker of the finest fruits (and in principle, I believe everyone to be naturally eclectic until they choose to become rigin within any particular belief or doctrine/dogma). - This flexibility in philosophy is both found in Daoism and Buddhism. On Feb 8, 2:25 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > It is astonishing to delve into Daoism again, so elegantly it describes > my long struggle with identity. How could I forget? The fundamental > precepts of my nature that have stood in stark contrast, this is far too > convenient and significant.. In my view I see all as nature and the > transcendent a growth or exploration beyond the horizon that today I can > only feel the pull and draw of the innermost. I would certainly enjoy > hearing more from someone who has chosen this path as their personal > philosophy! > > On 2/6/2011 5:51 PM, zen wrote: > > > > > On Jan 31, 4:00 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello and greetings Aezen my replies are mixed in the post below. > > >> On 1/29/2011 10:47 PM, zen wrote: > > >>> This is my first post here, so I thought that this post I shared in > >>> another group would actually be a good introduction here =] > >>> *** > >>> "There are 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a > >>> miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." > >>> - Einstein > >>> In science, nature - or at least energy - is taken to be something > >>> inert and void of consciousness. Only from some quirk in the evolution > >>> of chemistry arising in abiogenises, that engenders evolution of life > >>> is consciousness derived in ever more intricate and developed ways of > >>> expression. > >>> However, on the quantum level, it is the interaction of basic energies > >>> that give rise to the fundamental forces - the laws of natural > >>> behaviour (also referred to as the fundamental interactions). These > >>> most basic interactions of energy give rise to all the variety of > >>> chemical, biological relationships. That again go on to evolve ever > >>> further, to the point that the interaction of individuals gives rise > >>> to society, and then nations and global poltics and economics. Yet no > >>> matter the level of relationship or interaction we want to discuss, > >>> all relationships are built out of the same fundamental relationships > >>> between energies. > >>> To suggest that consciousness may exist in energy, yet just like a bit > >>> in a computer, a lone quanta of energy doesn't do very much. But build > >>> up the bits and a computer can do amazing things - but all from the > >>> same fundamentals of a simple 'On& Off'. Similarly, energy could > >>> simply be consciousness in an undeveloped 'raw' form. > >>> "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal, and > >>> awakens in man." > >>> - Ibn al 'Arabi > >>> I am not referring to the God of any scripture. But Einsteins > >>> 'pantheistic' leniency towards seeing nature as divine. > >>> And I agree. I do not believe that a rock is conscious in the same > >>> sense as we ordinarly define consciousness... but that the very same > >>> interactions that have coellesced in a particular way to form a rock > >>> are the same that have have formed different relationships that have > >>> formed our biology. > >>> I'm basically dancing around the point that we are very much divine > >>> entities, that our lives are spiritual experiences - however, that > >>> doesn't entail the need for an individual soul. Merely that there is > >>> one eternal universal soul that we are apart of. > >>> You can intepret this in a religious context... but I don't see the > >>> need. If that is as it is, then that is simply it. And as much, > >>> science is the best tool we have to explore nature. In that sense, > >>> science, in my opinion, must realise that it IS very much a guide on > >>> morality& ethics, because it explains to us who we are and why we are > >>> as best it can. > >>> That rational argument must be the only true way to derive our ethics > >>> because it opens things up to be tested and see if they hold true. > >>> What consquences do our actions have? And how can we improve them, and > >>> improve ourselves? > >> Yes, and the philosophy of science at times will call our attention to > >> cultural anthropology or other fields as they merit, all within science > >> IMO. I myself have a very high regard for science as an evolving > >> paradigm spanning all things, especially the living which devise tools > >> to interpret environmental information. In my personal belief science is > >> complementary to nature. > > > Very much so. A tool to better understand and even percieve nature. > > >> When at peace, when my mood is amenable to it, or otherwise thrust into > >> consciousness like the most apparent truth I feel very similarly. At > >> times I hold both perspectives in equanimity, transcendentalist and > >> naturalist, I have no expression for it.. > > The feeling is mutual. However, I dislike the notion of > > transcendentalism. I prefer to consider it as more a permeation of, or > > merging with the more sublime essence of nature, rather than rising > > above it. > > >>> I am very much into Buddhist and Daoist philosophies. Though, I > >>> consider myself a 'Bukist' (my nickname amongst friends is Buk =] )... > >>> I believe that progress of an individual can only be made when they > >>> believe that they can live up to the highest moral ideals - even if we > >>> don't know what they are, to at least believe we can try and discover > >>> them > >>> I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist, yet a little of both. > >>> Buddhism has taught me the value of balance between all extremes. The > >>> middle path. All things in moderation - even moderation in moderation! > >> As a good friend says it, "All things in moderation, especially > >> moderation." > > >>> It is healthy to explore the variety of life, yet even better is to > >>> come to understand the cycles of our own habits as individuals, and > >>> our general habits as humans. I believe that by being aware of our > >>> potential to cause harm form our animalistic nature, to our ability to > >>> be influenced under social pressures allows us to begin to free > >>> ourselves from them - to understand our nature and help express it in > >>> productive and creative ways. To choose the things that infuences us. > >>> Before I finish. I will say that I realise Buddhism as a religion is > >>> full of its own pitfalls of a religion. That it's socio-economic > >>> tradition is unsustainable and detrimental to a society. Yet, the core > >>> philosophy - that life is stressful, life is suffering brought about > >>> by our ignorance and attachments to certain things - is a beautiful, > >>> apt and in my experience, a true teaching of our human condition. > >>> Learning to be apart of life, but letting go of wanting more from each > >>> moment, and simply making the most of what is right in front of you. > >>> - That doesn't deny responsibility to make plans. It tries to free us > >>> from the stress of worry to allows us to then do our best in any > >>> particular moment, from having learned about the cycles, habbits and > >>> patterns of ourselves and nature - our greater nature. > >>> I will not deny that I wished more people understood Buddhism& Daoism > >>> in the way I have experienced those philosophies. But that's the crux > >>> for anyone. That we all think we're right. It's a contradtion to > >>> believe you're wrong!! Even if you think you are wrong now about > >>> something, an idea, an action - you are sitll thinking that you are > >>> right, in that moment, about being wrong, in another moment! > >> A favorite topic of mine is assessments because the dynamics can be very > >> complex or simple and revealing, and much of it boils down to such > >> logical statements. One key point is comprehension, if the matter or > >> variables are beyond comprehension one cannot trust oneself to make the > >> best judgement, and wouldn't likely be able to identify the best sources > >> of information. A smarting example is investing faith in certainty, a > >> thing some make into a 'religion', that leads one into reductio ad > >> absurdum by ignoring all contradicting alternative views to support a > >> preconceived notion. > > Nicely put... > > >>> Not so bad on it's own, except this seems the > >> predominant meme pathway, it works because people bow to it > >> unconsciously giving in to the majority, a vicious cycle often leaning > >> on a false sense of necessity and urgency. > > > Having studied Psychology, there are many complex issues at play > > (obviously), but none so influental as peoples denial of how easily > > influenced they are by their peer group to conform. People want to > > believe they make their own choices, when it has been my experience > > that this is far from, if only rarely true. > > - People seek acceptance and validation, and if the dominant culture > > in society dictates that a particular religion is 'true', then there > > are immense social pressures on any individual to yield to those > > pressures and conform. > > > Truly, it takes a strong individual to stand up against the majority. > > >> Welcome to the group, I am Ash- one who sees boundaries as a challenge, > >> knows little about much, thinks endlessly, aided by an atrocious memory. > > > Thankyou, and I enjoy further discussion =] > > >>> Simply put, I understand that I would like to influence people to look > >>> into these philosophies. I have enjoyed them immensley and feel that > >>> they have truly taught me alot about how to meditate and observe > >>> myself, and thereby seeing so much of me in the others I see around > >>> me. > >> I've had similar experiences with those philosophies, somehow my cursed > >> memory is a puzzle of continual renewal and rediscovery. This life I > >> have heard of nothing like it, but it is nice to feel others with me and > >> very warming to feel others may be like me, it is an unlearning. > > > The Daoists speak of 'unlearning' as a virtue. To return ourselves > > back to the uncarved wooden block. Our primal nature. > > > Though I appreciate the sentiment, it to me is not an unlearning, it > > is relaxing into yourself. You cannot deny your experiences, nor your > > predisposition to react negatively or positively based on your past > > experiences/conditionings and your current situation and state of > > self. > > > So it is a continuous learning. An evolution of experience and > > understanding. Diving > > ... > > read more »
